Riddle Help

[bgp0231]

In stone it was said no place was greater
Its story first of skill, power, glory - then later
A tale of greed and loss it became
Yet ever were the deeps and levels accorded great fame.

Moria but i would just like to confirm with some more experienced players to confirm.

[lionatus]

Yes Moria is the answer. I put Khazad Dum but was changed to Moria for me.

Alan J.

[Ed Mills]

Alan, changed for you? As in the GM changed your order submission for you?

[lionatus]

I assume so. Going by what the riddle says I was leaning towards Khazad Dum because of the descirption in the 1st 2 lines. Either way its the same place. Was glad to not have to waste a turn to try Moria.

[lionatus]

Why? In essence both answers are correct. It is the nature of computers that things have to be specific. I for one am glad of such interference if you wish to call it that. Each to his own though. Besides Clints a cool guy and e joke around on occasion. I even joined his exclusive club, 'The pre-turn 4 bankruptcy lodge' :rolleyes:

[murmur]

Perhaps it`s just you Clint doesn`t like, Ed?

Maybe everything he does from the moment he wakes up is aimed at thwarting and humiliating you in MEPBM world! Just you, mind, because you are only a customer after all, and i`m sure he/they [the company] doesn`t/don`t really need your money. They want to rule the RL world, but being dictators of all MEPBM worlds is just a step to that ultimate goal. However, they must destroy their arch nemesis; ED MILLS!

Or maybe, and i might be wrong here, one of two things happened in Alan`s example [whom i count as a MEPBM buddy];

[1]The program is set-up to recognise the same/similar answers and change the input to the generic "correct" one.
and
[2]Clint had nothing to do with it and another GM [on instructions] corrected the correct answer to, er, the correct answer...

?

[murmur]

'The pre-turn 4 bankruptcy lodge'

--Can you send a membership form C/O TEAM LUSH to Fletcher Brown please?

;-)

[Ed Mills]

David: Some, many or all of your suppositions may be correct.

[herman]

:rolleyes:

Unless there is evidence of the answer not being previously changed for other people I would suggest your grievances are a problem only you will be able to deal with.
I would have thought that Moria, Khazud Dum or Darrowdelf would all be correct but if the code only recognizes Moria then the GM changes your "correct" answer to the correct answer the code will recognise. If the riddle was asking for a specific race's name for the place then you would expect no modification to be made.

Regards Herman :)

[benmin18]

I've had this happen to me as well regarding a riddle that required Erebor or The Lonely Mountain as an answer. Who cares really. It's the same place just a different name. Both answers were correct to the riddle and I got the result I wanted. I've also mistyped answers to riddles and those weren't changed. I think you're likely reading too much into this issue, Ed.

- Ben

[lionatus]

Clint is nothing if not scrupulously fair. He gives NO advantage to anyone for anything. It'd diminish his/harly's impartiality and give someplayers the wrong idea. I only assumed as the riddle answer was changed. As for the other team trying if they'd had someone there, which they might have as I have no idea, they would have received the same if indeed it did happen. Who gets the arty is randomly decided much like every other order processed in aturn.

:rolleyes: forgot about Fletch, Khand Easterlings as far as I remember wasn't it?

[murmur]

Alan, I don`t think the KE were his only "mistake"...i`m sure he bankrupted the northmen too! *hopes he`s not listening*

;-)

d

[Ed Mills]

OK Alan, I accepted "Clint is my good ole buddy" (which got me a lottle hot) so I will accept your later comment. I'm deleting the business. But, understand, from this side of the water it sometimes looks like a clique of Brits really have the GM's ear.

[VEO]

I recall I answered a riddle with a misspelled word (a question of a missing letter, I believe). Turn results had my characters saying the correct word to a successful conclusion. And I'm not British.

And David, add a 1650 WK onto that list while you're at it! ;)

[lionatus]

If we keep this up the list might turn into a tome :rolleyes:

Ed, cheers for the last. I fully understand. Years ago when we had GM problems from another company they used the 'But GSI says etc...' line and we on this side of the pond felt pretty much the same as you hint at now, but in reverse. Im sure in time you'll see that with Hraly that this at long last is not the case.

Happy gaming,

Alan J.

[Ed Mills]

Trust Brad to throw gasoline on a fire. In the Army we use to say "Once is chance, twice is happenstance and three times is enemy action". You provide the second example. The third comes from own experience, but probably should not count. So, one more example and we have a pattern.

[Kevin Given]

Ok gentlemen, explain how this came about:

The Game is #234, hex is 1923, artifact is uncontested, the Riddle is well-known (you'll recognize it from the answers), and the sequence goes:

T7: Initial encounter
T8: Respond "Sea-Bell" Nothing
- Query Harly (Rob?), told that missing a word like "A, An or The" won't affect result - they'll edit it in
T9: Respond "Frodo's Dreme" Nothing
- Using alternate name for the poem, since missing the "The" shouldn't matter
T10: Respond "The Sea-bell" and secure the artifact

Now there are several disturbing things here - and not just concerning the misinformation after T8. That could easily have been just a simple mistake, and after years of dealing with GSI (before Harly), weeellll, let's just say I'm used to it. I'm more worried that:

1) If there is editing going on, is it being done uniformly? Are there rules for when the GM can fix typos and add letters, helping words, whatever, in order to add some welcome flexibility to a rigid response?

2) Is there uniformity when the GM substitutes? Are we at the mercy of the knowledge base of the indivdual GMs? I can see a case where a GM might know that Khazad-dum is a synonym for Moria, but not know Dwarrowdelf is - or that Frodo's Dreme is an alternate name for The Sea-bell. Is there a standardized 'list' of acceptable responses?

Personally, it's not such a big deal for the teams I play on - we'll end up with the artifacts eventually anyway. But it is something to ponder...

[lionatus]

The question is though was there a substitution or is this built into the game. Its from the mid-80s so the code cant be more than 640k long for each segment. With databases much like stock records, I'm guessing, for the events. Searching through these events is simple enough and if the 'key' answer has several linked answers to it the code will most likely print he key answer out whether it was given or not. either way Im not bothered, was just one of those things that made you recheck your submitted orders.

[VEO]

I'm deleting the business.


Trust Brad to throw gasoline on a fire. In the Army we use to say "Once is chance, twice is happenstance and three times is enemy action". You provide the second example. The third comes from own experience, but probably should not count. So, one more example and we have a pattern.

Don't blame me for your lack of integrity dude. My thread-relevant post was simply that. I accept no responsibility for your incessant witch hunt. Go in peace.

[Celebion]

Ok gentlemen, explain how this came about:

The Game is #234, hex is 1923, artifact is uncontested, the Riddle is well-known (you'll recognize it from the answers), and the sequence goes:

T7: Initial encounter
T8: Respond "Sea-Bell" Nothing
- Query Harly (Rob?), told that missing a word like "A, An or The" won't affect result - they'll edit it in
T9: Respond "Frodo's Dreme" Nothing
- Using alternate name for the poem, since missing the "The" shouldn't matter
T10: Respond "The Sea-bell" and secure the artifact

Now there are several disturbing things here - and not just concerning the misinformation after T8. That could easily have been just a simple mistake, and after years of dealing with GSI (before Harly), weeellll, let's just say I'm used to it. I'm more worried that:

1) If there is editing going on, is it being done uniformly? Are there rules for when the GM can fix typos and add letters, helping words, whatever, in order to add some welcome flexibility to a rigid response?

2) Is there uniformity when the GM substitutes? Are we at the mercy of the knowledge base of the indivdual GMs? I can see a case where a GM might know that Khazad-dum is a synonym for Moria, but not know Dwarrowdelf is - or that Frodo's Dreme is an alternate name for The Sea-bell. Is there a standardized 'list' of acceptable responses?

Personally, it's not such a big deal for the teams I play on - we'll end up with the artifacts eventually anyway. But it is something to ponder...

I doubt there is any editing going on unless it is just for artifact repsonces. I know in GB games, orders are not being checked for violation of the rules i.e. 525's in friendly pop centers. I also know that game balance issues are not factored in replacing GB posistions so I doubt anyone is checking much of anything. I dont think they have time/willingness to do that. Just my opinion though.

[Ed Mills]

This business plays into two comments I made on the recent company questionnaire. These being the company's tendancy to have practices that amount to unpublished policy and the company's tendancy to 'spoonfeed' the players. It also has implications for the game's future.

There are enough data points to conclude the company sometimes edits players' turn submissions. But, as pointed out, they are busy people. Therefor, the practice is erratic, situational and 'iffy'.

Why should BPG bother to learn the correct response to a riddle? The company as a 'service' will put in the correct one for him. Why should Brad proooof his riddle answers? The company will correct typos.

For that matter, why have riddles at all? Do they serve a purpose?

[VEO]

For that matter, why have riddles at all? Do they serve a purpose?

So did you mention on your questionnaire that you'd like to see either new riddles or the whole idea of riddles removed from play? See, with the code, new riddles is something they might be willing to put together. Toss in some new encounters, randomize encounter responses, and presto, the 285/290's have some flair again.

I don't recall the company's "official" policy stated here First Hand. The idea that "oh, if we see something we'll take care of it" was proven useless in the example given, so it very simply has to be hard coded in the program or left alone. Did someone change the spelling of my word or did the computer recognize the attempt? I don't see the database having the possible permutations in it (way too many...) or the "sound like" logic capabilities to make deductive guesses.

I don't personally care enough to make the request in an email to me@middleearthgames.com, but if anyone else does, this thread would only be more complete with the response.

Brad