Loyalty and Taxes

[Pearly]

Gentlemen,

Can I get opinions/facts regarding the effect of lowering taxes upon a nation's loyalty? EG Lower taxes from 60% by one point and lowering taxes from 60% to 40% in one turn.

[DaveHolt]

I believe the generally accepted rule of thumb for lowering taxes is that each population center has a random chance of having its loyalty rise by 0 to N% where N% is the reduction in Tax Rate.

If you're going to lower from 60% to 40%, go ahead and lower to 39%.

From Mouth of Sauron and my old friend Eric Schnurr (who is going to miss going on the canoe trip this year to Quetico!):

Tax Rate Loyalty
1-19% +2 to +4 pts
20-39% +0 to +2 pts
40-60% -1 to +1 pts
61-80% -2 to +0 pts
81-100% -4 to -2 pts

[nanook]

having its loyalty rise by 0 to N% where N% is the reduction in Tax Rate

That's right, and it works for tax hikes, too.

The per turn impacts listed are correct also, but the break points appear to be 13%, 26%, 39%, 60%, 73%, 86%., not the more convenient 20/40/60/80. The most common debate is about 59% vs 60%; the loyalty break really is at 60%, not 59.

Fortunately, this is one of those rare questions in ME-PBM that CAN be answered by reading pdf results -- every turn, your team gets plenty of data. Check the above points; they really do seem accurate.

[VEO]

Dan,

what are your ranges? With those numbers, you have extra breaks than a simple 20/40/60/80/100...?

Brad

[DaveHolt]

Originally posted by nanook

The per turn impacts listed are correct also, but the break points appear to be 13%, 26%, 39%, 60%, 73%, 86%., not the more convenient 20/40/60/80.

really? cool. haven't seen that much data down around 13% or 26%. what are the effects at those points? what are the ranges you're indicating? thanks in advance for any information. certainly the data is correct that it's 0%, +1%, or +2% at 39, and -1%, 0%, and +1% from 40 through 60 inclusive. As you point out, the data is there and easy to verify.



The most common debate is about 59% vs 60%; the loyalty break really is at 60%, not 59.


i agree. i keep having to tell folks on my teams about this... :-)

[Celebion]

1-13 = (+2 to +4)
14-26 = (+1 to +3)
27-39 = (+0 to +2)
40-60 = (-1,0,+1)
61-73 = (0 to -2)
74-86 = (-1 to -3)
87-100 = (-2 to -4)

Each point of VOLUNITARY tax change has % chance to affect loyalty. I believe the % chance is 50, others think it is 66.7. Pop centers will vary widely. Add up the change next time you raise or lower taxes and compare the average loss/gain versus the tax rate change. You can draw your own conclusions.

If your taxes rise INVOULUNTARILY you get hosed bad, maybe 1 to 1 ratio. Larger PC's seem somewhat more stable but that is just an opinion of mine. It could be that they generally have higher loyalties so they don’t seem as bad as the 3 camps you just lost and 9 you will lose next turn ;)

[88 Noldo]

In the for-what-it-is-worth column, a guy (who should know) told me the 40% fulcrum was obtained because, at the time the game was designed, the maximum Federal tax bracket was 39 and one-half percent.

[nanook]

Brad, Celebion 's ranges are the ones I was citing. The ones from 39% and up seem accurate, but I should confess that I haven't tried 26% and definitely not 13% (or even seen it! Anyone here tried?)

Celebion, that's an interesting note about Voluntary/Involuntary -- I'd never considered a difference. I guess with enough forced tax hikes, you could figure that there was a difference. Either that, or the game is out to get you...

- Dan/Nanook

[DaveHolt]

Celebion - THANKS for posting the data. not sure when it will matter (i.e. when I'll have a nation with luxury to have 26% tax rate... LOL) but thanks anyway!

cheers,
Dave

[Tuormo]

data looks right to me

Fred

[Celebion]

The only tax rate effect that I can not confirm is 87-100%. Guess some 1650 WK player could do that :)

Not sure I have ever had a forced tax increase, though my GSI years are somewhat foggy. I have seen it happen in recent weeks, not a pretty sight.