Game 238

[RKFloyd]

I've never been a fan of pre-aligned games, but after 238, I may change my mind!


Urzy 238

[Baja21]

Well, I will say. It did help that you never even contacted the Khand. The rest of the recruiting was done with alot of hard work.. :)

Well, I hope the FK is done attempting to threaten MM. I see you finally decided to bring gothmog along to try and do a mans (err orcs) job. Too bad reinforcements arrived. :)

SG

[RKFloyd]

If we "never contacted the Khand", then who in the bloody blue blazes is Kevin Brown at mornhm@soltec.net ??????????????????????????

[murmur]

The facts of the matter are so;

We`ve contacted ALL neutrals EVERY turn. We still hear from some of them, with love, respect and insider dealing. That`s not even counting my charming little invention called The Lidless Eye.
KHAND contacted us for confirmation of identity, which we fulfilled. the WW/Duns never even bothered to get back to us.
Clint [RE} jumped ship at the last moment, after much mutual planning, information sharing, bargaining etc. Apparently it was for the size of the FP bribe. Nice.
Ben [Corsairs] was very communicative [as is his way!] and was at least open to negotiation, but disappointed us by going FP [we think, generously] for the chance at going up against some old friends...even though his dumbkopf commaders haven`t managed to change allegiance yet...still unlikely he`ll go DS AFTER destryong the QA capital, isn`t it?

SO there you go, the FP have 5 neutrals onboard [first time in my experience], they now have 14 nations [having gotten rid of the incompetent tree-huggers] and we have 8. Do you still want a game, or do you want us to drop and let some of your new friends place in the top three? Hmmm, 12 turns of building nations for nothing, how disappointing would that be?

MURMUR [alive and well and killing inferior agents]

cheers,

[The Eternal]

the drop option is appealing, it'll save us money as we know it's only a matter of time now against those odds, still too early to find the ring apparently.

Also from a former neutral perspective, think of all that money they'll have wasted for no return, at least we've had some fun for ours:p

off course i am enjoying killing all those little freeps so maybe i'll hang around a little longer:D

your friendly Nazgul,

Ji (he of the rather bloody knife)

aka Alan Gourlay

[Baja21]

I cannot say if you did or didn't contact all the neuts, I was just going on what the Khand said. Granted, he didn't reply to us again until just recently. (last turn.) We had figured you had him in your back pocket.
We did very aggressivly recruit the Corsairs and the RE. I too have been playing with Ben in another game (as well as a few other team mates) and wasn't relishing the thought of facing off against him this game. Clint was another story. We did give him quite a bit to flip, and like the KE, we didn't think we had a chance with him. I would say our investment has paid off in spades. I will say this. If you shared alot of coordination and planning with him before he flipped, he has not told us anything. He has been very fair, and a very good ally.
This is my first time I have seen all neuts flip one way as well. And there has to be something to that. Our team prides itself in our respect for the neutral nations, and our ability to recruit them. As one member of our team put it "Going after neutrals is just like going after artifacts." We throw alot of resources into that aspect of the games. Just ask Ben.. He got calls form quite a few members of our team, including and international trans-atlantic call..

Anyway, This game has been interesting for me (first time playing SG), and I hate to see it end this soon. If it does, perhaps a rematch with some prealigned neuts.

Ben Cook
SG-238

[cannfb]

I hardly think it's reasonable to characterize Clint's actions towards us as "fair" IMO. Terms were agreed (generous terms) and he bailed at the last moment. I certainly would never trust him again.

While I certainly salute your getting all Neutrals on board, I think it says more about them than about the FP recruiting ability - that they are front-runners and not interested in a competitive game. So be it. I will personally do all I can to make that as many Neutrals as possible are not around to see the end of this game. Frankly if I were a Freep I would get neither pride nor satisfaction about your victory, should it ever come.

Akhorahil.

[RKFloyd]

Yeah, well, at least you didn't already have Clint upgraded to Tolerated like idiotic, trusting me! Clint, I urgently request that you sign up in my next game. :) NOW, while my temper still flares, er, I mean, while my desire for your friendship still soars. . . . yeah . . . that's it! i WaNt tO bE yUrR pAL!!!!

[Clint]

Actually the reason I changed FP were many and varied.

1) Little contact from the DS - one email a turn from Fletch (thanks Fletch!), with the occasional email from the rest of the team and reducing in quantity. (A little contact with the LR - sorry I forget who is playing who now out of who I was in contact with). I even passed a little information onto the DS.

1)a - when moving armies and a clash occurred (one my fault one the Silvans) there were no recriminations. That sounded good to me (I am not worried about the shouting or screaming in the background, none occurred in the game or emails).

2) Minimal contact about information or response to my comments. So when I mentioned camps that I was going to - lo and behold a DS camp was there (or placing at the same time). Having sent out my information in advance I was a little peeved at this. The camp list you gave me - after several attempts - was basically crap. All pcs that were easy to take by the FP. (Western edge of Mordor etc).

3) My comment about Lamthanc at my camp was interestingly received - ie no comment. Something smelt at that time. Later on when attacking Morannon I found that the DogLord was dead. Ah,ah I thought. (Bulrakur was at the camp but next turn Lamthanc was still there - smelt of a team missing turns and the like - my number 1 personal detestation - I don't mind different skill levels or commitment but missing turns I detest as a team-mate - no excuse in a Grudge game).

4) Artefacts - a lot were offered me including a MT, but it all felt too sweet. There was actually nothing GIVEN to me, and it was hard work to get a turn number, location or anything else like that from the DS. Eventually after prising the information turn 8 was offered, no real location and no real plan on how to get them to me etc. Always, later you can have them. FP gave me two FP items to help swing the nation over.

5) I tried a 925 to find out if the Northmen were recruiting @4013. It failed. I was ready to go DS if it had worked and he had no troops, but then .... Nothing from the DS for weeks. I didn't fancy being the sacrificial lamb where the FP zone-call me at that point - which it felt like I was being set up for.

No emails such as - "don't worry we'll send armies, agents, or anything else like that " - either from ignorance of the Rhun situation, or from lack of caring. I felt the second option more likely. The FP upped their offer, not as good as the DS but then I was very likely to loose all my recruiting base to the FP at that time. Swung back to FP then.

6) I was trying to find anyway to be DS - bored of doing what was expected of the RE (either drop or go FP). Negotiations with Kevin (Khand) showed that we could have an alliance and that it might be useful - either to support me into Mordor or my defence against the FP. I have played enough grinding defence games where I valiantly hold out despite the odds - didn't fancy that.

7) It's the Aligned nations job to get the Neutral to want to to join you - the DS never really succeeded with that. Lots of promises - no action. Definitely felt us 10 and you others. The FP are more accomodating here.

8) Just basic trust - nothing came through that meant that you were a team that I could work with. Contact minimal or non-
existent many times. Lack of information ( no play for the sympathy vote for the DogLord's situation for example). The fact that the Dog Lord died implies something about the way the "team" works here... I don't know the reason it did but ...

9) Final fly in the ointment was a DS Infothering my camp whilst I was Neutral. No reply from the DS on that diplo. So I thought that it just confirmed my suspicions - let's go FP as they are threatening me in the East and need a decision.

Note I was the first Neutral to choose a team - no boat-jumping or the like for me. If you feel that I would be a bad ally to have in a game that's your call. I think you are mistaken here but can understand that you feel that you are stung.

Personally I detest the 10v10 Grudge games withOUT pre-aligned Neutrals (not a big fan of Neutrals in the game at all - they swing things too much - every game comes down to them it seems). Having all 5 Neutrals go against you says something though.

So there you go, some of the reasons that I just thought of for why I did not join the DS. There was some good points - DS offered me a shed load of artefacts and a MT back-up, communication with Fletch was decent. FP bettered your offer.

Clint (player)

[Mr Underhill]

Originally posted by Baja21
Well, I will say. It did help that you never even contacted the Khand. The rest of the recruiting was done with alot of hard work.. :)

Well, I hope the FK is done attempting to threaten MM. I see you finally decided to bring gothmog along to try and do a mans (err orcs) job. Too bad reinforcements arrived. :)

SG

I hope to attempt again.Many unforseen problems.
Once I was holding Navorn at the time and the citizens
mistook me for one of their own leaders...thought I was
there to collect taxes so they just ignored me.The last
attempt was just bad timing.A sudden gust of wind
caused my garments to billow up over my head.Need I
say more...I can still hear the laughter.

Ren/Fk

[Fletch]

Ohhh well, just bring it. I shall put all the Free Folk in the same grave as Elrond!! Din still has those nice pointy ears as a necklace!!

Actually, we did contact the Khand and had some early contact with him. His responses dried up later and then nothing. Now whether he was getting anything from me or not is debatable. (I am an MSN user, given their recent stint of crappy operations, I wont be much longer...hey they bought me with free months!<S>)

However, I dont believe we ever recieved anything from either the Duns or WW at all. I think their plans were in place from the start.


"To the bastion boys, time to prepare for siege"
Uvatha to his varied citizenry

Fletch - LR

[murmur]

Yes, it`s time to circle the wagons, or should that be wains? Mumakhil?
8 DS nations remain to 14 varied and sundry [i use the terms advisedly and in good nature] "Free" Peoples. We have decided to fight on because we`re having such a good time slaughtering the free characters, the instigators of the conspiracy.
Any volunteers for the knife this turn? THARUDAN, how about you? What are you doing with your shiny baubles out in public anyway?
Enough idle banter, i have sailors to kill and a newsletter to write, no rest for the wicked as they say...

MURMUR of DURTHANG,
sage, prophet and general pain in the butt [pirates].

[Goldschlager]

Just to clarify, the Duns and WW had serious reservations about our team early in the game. In particular, one of them had a bad experience with one of our members in a past game. So I have no idea what the final reasoning was. Communication with them has been on-and-off, largely due to email problems.

Those 2 nations did not join until recently. And we found out about it when we received our turn results! So I can honestly say that if their "plans were in place from the start", as Uvatha states it, it was certainly unknown to the FP.

Naturally, I would like to think that it was our combined effort at recruitment that swayed their decision!

Furthermore, I highly enjoy the random factor that neutrals add to the game. I have never played a neutral nation, but it certainly adds another dimension to the game. Especially when they declare early. Pre-aligned games have little mystery for me. There are significantly less options/strategies involved.

I also think that neutral recruitment is a critical aspect of the game. A team should focus on this. It is not unlike a team focusing on other goals, such as the arty hunt.

So far this has been a great game. I'm not exactly sure what the DS nations are doing to their economies? Two nations out? Hopefully, our attacks played some part in that, but I kinda doubt it. :-) And the DS agents are basically unstoppable to date. But you have Miles on your team, so you have had an uphill struggle all the way. :-)


-Brian
Northern Gondor

[Mr Underhill]

Thanks Brian...:). Its a steep climb.Fortunately,the rest
of the team have strong backs...:).

Ren/Fk

[RKFloyd]

It's hard to be bitter at someone named "Goldschlager." I love the avatar as well! Hurry up and kill us already. Then I'll drown my sorrow with your twin brother who resides in my fridge.

[Uncle Girion]

I will say that despite our early pounding on the DS, I cannot help but feel that you guys are doing very well. Your movements completely outfoxed me in Mirkwood and you captured 2508. Then you blocked two of our lads coming out of Goblin Gate. :eek:

Pounding through turns, I spotted the Fire King is getting jumpy again in the west.

I know it sucks to get nailed by all 5 neutrals. Personally, I felt the Duns were going DS until last turn. I've been on sandbagged games before and they are tough. HOWEVER with your agent superiority right now, I don't think it unlikely that you may pull a rabbit out of your hat. ;)


-Uncle G.-

[RKFloyd]

Or you might pull a rabbit out of our dead, rotting corpses! :) We'll see . . . enough dismal talk for me . . . next post the taunting begins again!

Urzy

[murmur]

Thankyou, Freepsters,
For you kind compliments about our efforts to stay alive!
We ARE having fun right now and that remains the best reason to stay in the game. Our agents are better , as a group, than anything i`ve seen before at this stage in the game. You should SEE some of those agent rank/stealth combinations. Scary! If we were even playing DS10 to FP14 i`d fancy us to win, but right now we`re just gonna play til it aint fun anymore...
Fancy a sweepstake as to who will get the knife this turn? It was a disappointing turn last time, only 3 killed, but we had a LOT of moving around to do AND all those pesky FP arties keep piling up, so a spot of housekeeping was in order. I found it especially funny to relieve the Rhun of the artifacts he got as part of his bribe! Perhaps he could spare some gold too?
Anyway, enough boasting WHO are the top three nations anyway? They sure aint on our team, please tell me they aren`t Johnny-come-lately former neutrals!? Don`t you hate it when that happens? They spend 10 turns sitting on their hands, putting camps down, and then swan into your team thinking they have a right to keep all their "hard-earned" riches! Want to gang up and take them out so we can have a fair fight?

Murmur the magnanimous in defeat.

[RKFloyd]

Murmur,

I have it from a reliable source that the WW and Duns are in the top 3. Beautiful, ain't it?

Russ / Dklts

[murmur]

I guess that you get what you pay for...i wonder if that means they`ll have a lot of gold lying about in their treasuries?
Shall we see?

MURMUR the Greedy

[Fletch]

I intend to establish several charitable institutions this turn, maybe the "Find Elrond" fund and the "Support Orphans of Rohirrim Commanders Society"

Uvatha

[murmur]

Subject: The Lidless Eye, Issue 10.

"WE ARE MORDOR, SUPER MORDOR, NO ONE LIKES US, WE DON`T CARE!
WE HATE ELVES..." and i think we should leave it at that, huh?


SOooooooooooooooo, it finally happened, shock, gasp, bloody horror.
ALL 5 neutrals, for the first time in my esteemed diplomatic career
opted to join the same side; the Freeps and their very attractive
treasuries. Hilarious. All the more to rob we say. All the more
wealthy characters to chib in a back-alley. Oops. I promised not to
mention the corsairs sexual preference. Sorry Ben.
Our mole tells us that 2 of the new recruits moved straight into the
top 3 nations. Oh, how we giggled in Durthang at the prospect of
resigining our dark commissions enmasse and heading into the far
east. But the temptation to do harm is too strong...why quit when we
can gut and publicly display the leadership of the Elven Conspiracy
for their personal humiliation and civic entertainment? Let`s give
this war another few weeks? I know you`re asking "What did you do to
deserve ALL the Neutrals turning against you?" Well, the leadership
has been asking itself if totalitarian, fascist, megalomania was the
best spin we could put on our political agenda. Furthermore, it turns
out none of our missives have been reaching the [former] neutrals for
3 MONTHS! Hurrah! Barad-Dur has been a busy place this week,
the "games" at the OGROD MEMORIAL COLISEUM have never been more
entertaining. I myself foound time out of my busy schedule to attend
the Diplomatic Caste versus the Dragons battle on day 1. The sight
off all those failed emmisaries running around half-naked with
carrier pigeons stuffed in their mouths was spectacular!!! Our Lord
SAURON is said to have given full power to his AGENT caste. "A Free
Rein". Cool. Someone else is gonna pay!

My source from the Perrit Klan inside the lowest reaches of Barduath was irate at some of the "spin" put on the decisions of certain former neutrals;
"with regards to [HUZ`s] post, he did prattle on bit, i kept reading in the
hope of finding some substance, but, nope, not to be.

As for the crap about his arties [DIN] had arranged well in advance when
and where the hand off would be. If i remember correctly he wasn't all that
forth coming before he went freep about who we were supposed to be handing
off to. He bottled it in the end and took the easy option, no backbone for a
good honest fight :-)

to quote "I tried a 925 to find out if the Northmen were recruiting @4013.
It failed. I was ready to go DS if it had worked" , have you ever heard such
bull****!

Quote "Later on when attacking Morannon I found that the DogLord was dead.
Ah,ah I thought. (Bulrakur was at the camp but next turn Lamthanc was still
there - smelt of a team missing turns and the like - my number 1 personal
detestation - I don't mind different skill levels or commitment but missing
turns I detest as a team-mate - no excuse in a Grudge game)." If he was that
worried about missing turns and he was still 'looking to go DS' then why
didn't he get in touch to ask what was going on...". Needless to say, the Cloud Lord will not have to look far for his next target, indeed it`s already started...


But, what of the War?

MIRKWOOD:
Things continue to go well for the underdog Darks. Sorta.
BELPHEGOR and BOLG consolidated their armies at 2509 and moved to
2508 to block the approaching small armies of ASCARNIL [Noldo] and
ARADOR [Rangers]. This is as planned. However, other things did not
go to plan; OHTAR, the Silvan whelp managed to move onto the WK MT/F
at 2508 which is now undefended. This was due in large part to the
enchantments of RINGLIN who took out DURAN in a PC so avoiding a
costly battle for the Freeps. It remains to be seen what success the
Free can have at 2508. Several other free armies are closing in, but
all in all this area remains a place of relative success for the
Darks! BRAEGA of the defunct Woodmen nation was put out of all our
miseries by agents of THE LEADER this turn at 2711. Told you he was
turning up for his own funeral, didn`t i?

RHUN:
Where?

EAST MORDOR:
With the turn of the treacherous easterlings this area becomes one of
some concern for the beleaguered darks. A dwarven army has turned up
at one of the Dragon lord`s back-ups 3822. Will be interesting to see
what happens there. Small forces of the northmen and blind sorceror
will also meet at 3825.

MORANNON:
The funniest episode this turn was at the MT of the LR. The Rhun
Easterlings, flush with gold and shiny artifacts rode their cavalry
brashly into this keep only to have HURDRIAK kidnapped and JYGANOTH
assassinated. Bye-Bye cavalry, and, you`ll laugh, bye-bye shiny
artifacts "hard-won" from the freeps in return for their
allegiance!!! The gold won`t last much longer either...this was all
after the Easterlings, without the help of a rather dazed looking
Woodman Beneoracer and his motley crew of cavalry [with nice ST/ST
outfits] stood by and watched HURDRIAKS force defeat HARGROG and Co.
This week, the zombiefied BENEORACER can watch HARGROG take on the
accursed ERKUM [are they MAD in Rohan or what?] the latest in the
line of Riders "E" commanders to lead his cavalry into enemy
territory!


ITHILIEN:
Having just arranged the corpse of EOMUND in a fashionable pose to my
liking, i spotted that Northmen agent type KYNODEN lurking behind a
tree. I knew it was him because his mommy had helpfully sewn his name
on his britches, with up and down arrows on them. He threw a large
rock at me, which rebounded off the branches of the tree and smote
him on the bonce. He appeared to be unconscious, so taking pity on
the poor befuddled dolt , i let him be and headed off for sunnier climes.
Butt Pirates to annoy, and all that...

THE ITHIL PASS:
This is where things get interesting!
The Free have upped Osgiliath to a MT. All the better to recruit
from. We are concerned. At Minas Morgul and "huge" south gondor army
now protects it`s newest colony. ADRAHIL, if we can drag him away
from the pie table, will take on Fire King and Dark Lts armies under
SKARGNAKH, SNAGA and the venerable GOTHMOG. Osgiliath is jam-packed
with fun-loving gondorians. All the better to recruit...all the
better to stab in the gut and eviscerate. Where ARE all the dragons
when you need one!?!

HARAD:
I nearly forgot about this. The still neutral, pink and orange clad
pirates came to the Quiet Avengers capital city and in a most
surprising show of their weak-wristed power competely destroyed it.
Perhaps, they didn`t think they could hold onto it. Stabling their
camels for a while they elected to spend the week picking through the
ruins for baubles and gold and stuff. Not that i`m saying that the
corsairs are money-grubbing mercenaries you understand. Just Idle
Banter. The newly Freepified Khand Easterlings have joined the
Conspiracy and sit at ADUNAPHELS former back-up Major Town.

WHITE WIZARD/DUNLENDINGS:
As ever these near neighbours, "confirmed bachelors" were found
holding hands and skipping gaily into the arms of the welcoming
freeps. Quite a surprise protest the freeps! Not to us, matey, having
never heard a word and seeing some of their agents steal from us for
weeks, it was no great surprise to see these mighty powers official
join the other side. Call me a cynic, but is it just in time to
finish high up the leaderboard?

Maben, Khamul`s second in command, speaking in his place at the War Cabinet meeting this week made an accurate assessment of the War so far;

"Actually, for all the original freep's hard work in the south, we've so far
only lost two nations and neither due to their efforts. One to an
unfortunate bankruptcy [it`s always unfortunate when you sell 100 UNITS of food rather than 100%!!!] and the other to a neutral who can't [or should it be subconsciously doesn`t WANT to] declare. To be
honest with the exception of the initial successes NG / SG & RR made against
Mordor (they knocked out 3124 & 3123) the freeps haven't really covered
themselves in glory in this one, the only reason they're going to win is due
to the damn neutrals.

To be honest the winter and bad economic state is probably going to account
for knocking more of us out than they will."

Not that we`re bitter...



SCOREBOARD:

Freeps [14 nations]:
23 dead, 5 M-I-A.

Darks [8 nations]:
5 dead, 2 M-I-A.


My warmest regards, i`ll be seeing you soon,

MURMUR of Durthang.


PS; to end with the football chant theme;

COME AND HAVE A GO IF YOU THINK YOU`RE HARD ENOUGH!

[helvorn]

I would have to say that the DS have been clearly out-played in the area of the neutrals, just like the FP have been outplyed (so far!) in the area of agents. We worked long and hard to recruit these guys and obviously it has paid off into a potential game winner just like a good agent game might.

When you get 5 out of 5 neutrals to go FP I think the DS need to look a bit in the mirror for the reasons. Granted that we worked very hard to get the neutrals, we aren't quite that studly (well, maybe...). I also wouldn't say that it was because the neutrals are all corrupt, DS-hating traitors.

The KE was pretty much poised to go DS up to the last minute FP diplo blitz. I assume the WW/Dun went FP because they felt the most comfortable with our team. Certainly it wan't due to some pre-arrangement as the WW had it in big time for his nearest FP neighbor from the start.

It certainly wasn't because we were clearly winning and the neutrals wanted to pile on at the last minute to pull out a win. The WW/Dun combo could have gone DS, cleared the center of the map and still come out in the top three. I have SEEN their econs!

It's not like we promised them much out of the ordinary. The Dun got a nifty artifact and the WW will get a few pop centers to be named. We merely talked frequently and apparently made the neutrals feel better about our team than the DS team.

When you play with neutrals you have to work with them, just like ANY other aspect of the game.

I for one am looking forward to taking out some serious DS rear ends in Mirkwood. This has been a very fun and informative game. I am also looking forward to exchanging notes after the game is over.

Matt Ashley/Sylvan-238

PS Ringy sends his love and expresses his thanks for the CLoud Bow. Nothing like a surprise challenge to make your day...

[Mr Underhill]

"Mirror...where?...where?...who said that?...what?...whew...that
was close....disloyal contraptions....I've had them all removed
from my chambers...and position myself away from their gaze
when travelling in an official capacity....they reveal too much by
not revealing anything....and thus everything....they are ever watching..without thought...without regard...without purpose...
ever waiting to betray my non-existence..."

Rozilan of the Fire Kingdom

[murmur]

Ren...smelly old buddy, that was deep. I`m only a simple country lass with a god complex and death wish. Can you explain that last one, please?

Murmur the confused.

[Mr Underhill]

Rozilan...looks like a vampire to me...mirror...doesn't
cast a reflection...reveals what she is....

Unless you are referring to the quote at the bottom...

"to the stars thru hardship" is the translation

Ren

[murmur]

Aaaaaah, i see. Or not as the case may be.
I always thought she was just a strong woman living in a man-things empire...she`s always been a role model and heroine for me. A career girl trying to make it in trying times, where people are continually challenging, harassing and generally kill me! What have i done to deserve such ire? So i killed Lindal and Eomund, rebuffed the attentions of Kynoden the dullard and Feamire the fop, do i deserve to be pursued by such grimy, uncouth freeplings ALL the time? We shall see, i`m expecting them to be waiting at my new location in the "deep south"!!

Murmur the innocent.

[Baja21]

I do appreciate that you team has not elected to drop, but rather to continue to let us churn out commanders to throw upon your blades! I have enjoyed doing so thus far. (If you release Duinir I'll try to get him right back into the action as well!)

As for needing dragons.. I recommend you take your agents, and seperate into singles (dragons are scared by groups) then send them all into the desert south of the Khand. I heard that the dragons are sick of the misties (somthing about the cold) and have decided to relocate to somewhere with a little milder climate. Or maybe it was that "unmentionables" convention that I had sent out those invites for..

Anyway, Good luck to you all. I have to get back to repainting Minas Morgul, and figuring out how I can attract a little bit of that booming Osgiliath economy into the mountains..

Ben Cook
SG