Harlequin Games
2nd February 2008, 11:23 AM
Hi Rob - have oyu been reading the MEPBMlist because we have dealt with the
comments a lot in the past before. We have tried to get a set of orders
from the players - but knowing that whatever we do will not be pleasing to
the players is hard to justify us spending a lot of wasetd time and effort
on such endeavours. We have tried to ask the players what they would like
to see that way and so far got one return of ideas out of 250 ME players
that is extremely poor. We can't help if players don't want to help
themselves.
So then I suggested a 10k gold for anyone missing their turn. Same quantity
of replies. (Missing a turn is bad so yes although it would help one team
more than the other - in both cases it is still not as good as getting in a
turn IMHO). If the players don't tell us what they want (and note that most
of the players have been playing the game much longer than us so have a
better idea on what orders are appropriate) then we can't help really.
For some with less money than your good self, the game is at the top end
oftheir expenditure. Putting up a deposit does not help and would probably
hinder the game). As mentioned before chatting to your team-mates (getting a
team captain for such) is useful to make sure that all are getting orders in
and if not for them to put them in themselves. We do get team-games set up
where this is more apparent - but normal games this does not happen so
often.
Some players play 2950 for the slower aspect of the game, and also 1000 can
allow some sort of sit-back position. One thing we do do is that we do try
to get players who are "less reliable" to take Neutral positions so that
they have less impact on the game by missing a turn.
(Game 16 which I am playing had the same on our side with one player missing
a turn, and one putting in minimal orders as well).
I hope that helps explains things - and hopefully we can get some good ideas
flowing here. I also mentioned that we could get the SS turn changed and
got one response - not much help really - although excellent in itself it
only represents one persons viewpoint (sometimes that of a team) and we
can't realisitically change it on that.
We put a fair bit of effort to get replacement players in the game - but ME
has a high drop-out rate (not very high but compared to many of our games a
lot), partially due to the nature of the game I think. We allow players to
take-over a friends position if they cannot keep running it - and also get
in touch with players who are on our standby list.
We found that finiancial incentive to take up a position doesn't help
unfortunately. Games end quickly as well - by the time we are aware that
players have dropped it can be two turns. We can't hold back games - this
annoys players as much as any of the other points raised as well I am afraid
(from time to time I have done so and there are many complaints! :-) ).
Sometimes it is the team that gets new players to replace drop-outs - and
sometimes it is us who find it. We do try...
:-)
if some of the ideas (espy team-captains being allocated and chatting to
their team-mates to assure everyone that they are gettin gin turns is the
best I think) above were implemented then I think we could go a long way to
solving some of these problems - but we need player input to help out here.
Have fun...
Clint
************************************************** **
Harlequin Games
mailto: pbm@...
www.harlequingames.com
Middle Earth - Legends- Serim Ral
Amaranth - CTF 2187 - Starquest
Battle of the Planets - Exile - Crack of Doom
************************************************** **
340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
Tel 01222 625665 12-6.30 Weekdays
Fax 01222 625532 24 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Pegg <rpegg@...>
To: 'Harlequin Games' <harlequin.games@...>
Date: 25 October 1999 21:36
Subject: ME:PBM A few constructive criticisms.
>Dear all,
>
>Just a general point concerning ME. I've played in a few games now where
>the first few turns of a game have been marred (sometimes beyond all
>recognition) by the non submittal of orders by some crucial players. Game
>16 has been a case in point, where two of the starting players where
>Italian and who both failed to submit orders. Only one of them finally got
>round to putting any orders in at all.
>
>The whole game has been spoilt by this, and it's a recurring problem which
>I feel needs to be addressed aggressively from your side before it puts
>people off the game. I realise that you cannot force people to put orders
>in - but these turns have been paid for in advance (or damn well should
>have been) - would it be too much to ask for there to exist a standard set
>of opening moves which could be input on this occassion rather than SS
>which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in this situation.
>
>Or alternatively, if somebody has missed the deadline then the game should
>be halted there and then until either a replacement player could be found
>or until the turn arrives. The player concerned could forfeit a certain
>amount of money to cover the inconvenience value, which of course would
>have to be lodged with you prior to the game start - a deposit if you will.
>
>The current situation is untenable - and annoys a lot of people
>unnecessarily - especially when it is not only the first turn that is
>missed, but the second as well. What is the point in the rest of the
>players taking part if critical members don't bother - the whole team
>suffers as a result of their non-efforts and the game inevitably ends
>prematurely anyway, so you get hit in the pocket as well.
>
>Lastly, sort of on the same subject, could you pursue replacement players
>with more vigour ? I am currently in a 4th Age game - as an example - where
>the game has been spoiled by the dropping out of a number of players, and
>although two have been replaced to my knowledge (critical to our sides
>efforts, so I found one replacement myself and made a fuss over the other),
>many more were not. The whole game is downgraded as a result of these drop
>outs. Do you currently offer any benefits to players who take up a
>suspended position ? Like two free turns ? If not you should - and if you
>do you need to advertise more fully.
>
>It's a great game, and I'd like to see some of the little wrinkles
>removed... These are intended to be constructive criticisms !
>
>Rob Pegg.
comments a lot in the past before. We have tried to get a set of orders
from the players - but knowing that whatever we do will not be pleasing to
the players is hard to justify us spending a lot of wasetd time and effort
on such endeavours. We have tried to ask the players what they would like
to see that way and so far got one return of ideas out of 250 ME players
that is extremely poor. We can't help if players don't want to help
themselves.
So then I suggested a 10k gold for anyone missing their turn. Same quantity
of replies. (Missing a turn is bad so yes although it would help one team
more than the other - in both cases it is still not as good as getting in a
turn IMHO). If the players don't tell us what they want (and note that most
of the players have been playing the game much longer than us so have a
better idea on what orders are appropriate) then we can't help really.
For some with less money than your good self, the game is at the top end
oftheir expenditure. Putting up a deposit does not help and would probably
hinder the game). As mentioned before chatting to your team-mates (getting a
team captain for such) is useful to make sure that all are getting orders in
and if not for them to put them in themselves. We do get team-games set up
where this is more apparent - but normal games this does not happen so
often.
Some players play 2950 for the slower aspect of the game, and also 1000 can
allow some sort of sit-back position. One thing we do do is that we do try
to get players who are "less reliable" to take Neutral positions so that
they have less impact on the game by missing a turn.
(Game 16 which I am playing had the same on our side with one player missing
a turn, and one putting in minimal orders as well).
I hope that helps explains things - and hopefully we can get some good ideas
flowing here. I also mentioned that we could get the SS turn changed and
got one response - not much help really - although excellent in itself it
only represents one persons viewpoint (sometimes that of a team) and we
can't realisitically change it on that.
We put a fair bit of effort to get replacement players in the game - but ME
has a high drop-out rate (not very high but compared to many of our games a
lot), partially due to the nature of the game I think. We allow players to
take-over a friends position if they cannot keep running it - and also get
in touch with players who are on our standby list.
We found that finiancial incentive to take up a position doesn't help
unfortunately. Games end quickly as well - by the time we are aware that
players have dropped it can be two turns. We can't hold back games - this
annoys players as much as any of the other points raised as well I am afraid
(from time to time I have done so and there are many complaints! :-) ).
Sometimes it is the team that gets new players to replace drop-outs - and
sometimes it is us who find it. We do try...
:-)
if some of the ideas (espy team-captains being allocated and chatting to
their team-mates to assure everyone that they are gettin gin turns is the
best I think) above were implemented then I think we could go a long way to
solving some of these problems - but we need player input to help out here.
Have fun...
Clint
************************************************** **
Harlequin Games
mailto: pbm@...
www.harlequingames.com
Middle Earth - Legends- Serim Ral
Amaranth - CTF 2187 - Starquest
Battle of the Planets - Exile - Crack of Doom
************************************************** **
340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
Tel 01222 625665 12-6.30 Weekdays
Fax 01222 625532 24 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Pegg <rpegg@...>
To: 'Harlequin Games' <harlequin.games@...>
Date: 25 October 1999 21:36
Subject: ME:PBM A few constructive criticisms.
>Dear all,
>
>Just a general point concerning ME. I've played in a few games now where
>the first few turns of a game have been marred (sometimes beyond all
>recognition) by the non submittal of orders by some crucial players. Game
>16 has been a case in point, where two of the starting players where
>Italian and who both failed to submit orders. Only one of them finally got
>round to putting any orders in at all.
>
>The whole game has been spoilt by this, and it's a recurring problem which
>I feel needs to be addressed aggressively from your side before it puts
>people off the game. I realise that you cannot force people to put orders
>in - but these turns have been paid for in advance (or damn well should
>have been) - would it be too much to ask for there to exist a standard set
>of opening moves which could be input on this occassion rather than SS
>which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in this situation.
>
>Or alternatively, if somebody has missed the deadline then the game should
>be halted there and then until either a replacement player could be found
>or until the turn arrives. The player concerned could forfeit a certain
>amount of money to cover the inconvenience value, which of course would
>have to be lodged with you prior to the game start - a deposit if you will.
>
>The current situation is untenable - and annoys a lot of people
>unnecessarily - especially when it is not only the first turn that is
>missed, but the second as well. What is the point in the rest of the
>players taking part if critical members don't bother - the whole team
>suffers as a result of their non-efforts and the game inevitably ends
>prematurely anyway, so you get hit in the pocket as well.
>
>Lastly, sort of on the same subject, could you pursue replacement players
>with more vigour ? I am currently in a 4th Age game - as an example - where
>the game has been spoiled by the dropping out of a number of players, and
>although two have been replaced to my knowledge (critical to our sides
>efforts, so I found one replacement myself and made a fuss over the other),
>many more were not. The whole game is downgraded as a result of these drop
>outs. Do you currently offer any benefits to players who take up a
>suspended position ? Like two free turns ? If not you should - and if you
>do you need to advertise more fully.
>
>It's a great game, and I'd like to see some of the little wrinkles
>removed... These are intended to be constructive criticisms !
>
>Rob Pegg.