RE: [mepbmlist] WotR

[Michael Peters]

>
>I would be interested in the War of the Ring varient even though I
>have only played in 2 games of 1650 so far - and been thrashed in
>both.

Someone wins, someone loses. I would hope you have learnt some tactics from
losing, and can join the winning side next time. I don't know of anyone who
has played more than a couple of games and won every one.

>Would players need to be very experienced to be able to handle it -
>or is 2950 harder

2950 has a much smaller economic base than 1650. So I feel it required a
different method of playing in order to avoid going bankrupt.

I think 1650 is harder since its total war from turn 0 (heaven help the
beginner on T0 if they don't know what is happening). In 2950 you can afford
to stuff around for the first few turns while you build up.

thanks
m


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[Michael Peters]

>Mike_Homeboy@... wrote
>>I would be interested in the War of the Ring varient even though I
>>have only played in 2 games of 1650 so far - and been thrashed in
>>both.
>Bless! Don't worry. It hurts a lot less than when you've played a
>score of games and still get trashed!

I always blame my allies. I also blame the team leader, so Stags got heaps
of abuse when I got my bottom creamed in my first FA game (the southern DS
easily won).

>
>>Would players need to be very experienced to be able to handle it -
>>or is 2950 harder
>No. It's not much more difficult. Ordinary 2950 is perhaps a _little_
>more difficult than 1650, but only because you have to manage the
>economy more carefully against bankruptcy. In general the difficulty
>for a green player is much more about team play and support, than about
>which scenario. Keep playing until you meet some veterans who play
>together in game after game, and will "adopt" you. Be prepared to take
>advice, and be told what's best for you! If you are a regular
>communicator, you'll soon get "fast-tracked" into the ranks of the
>gibbering addicts.

gibbering addicts ??? If we are addicts then middle earth is addictive.
Since Clint is charging us for our fix, does that mean that Clint goes in in
the same class as drug pushers ?

I noticed that a guy in train spotting ALSO had a cat, so Clints looking
VERY similar to that class of people

:)

thanks
m

p.s the smoking lobby also claims that its a personal choice if people smoke
or not.

pps I hope clint doesn't mind the cheap shot, but I couldn't resist it after
seeing the addict remark. I'm sure we all realise that hard drugs are VERY
bad, and should be avoided.

>
>Regards,
>
>Laurence G. Tilley
>http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/
>
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[Harlequin Games]

> gibbering addicts ??? If we are addicts then middle earth is addictive.
> Since Clint is charging us for our fix, does that mean that Clint goes in
in
> the same class as drug pushers ?
>
Excellent - but I thought you made lots of money that way?!

> I noticed that a guy in train spotting ALSO had a cat, so Clints looking
> VERY similar to that class of people

Long hair? BIG difference.
>
> :)
>
> thanks
> m
>
> p.s the smoking lobby also claims that its a personal choice if people
smoke
> or not.

Don't fancy going into this all now... :-)
>
> pps I hope clint doesn't mind the cheap shot, but I couldn't resist it
after
> seeing the addict remark. I'm sure we all realise that hard drugs are VERY
> bad, and should be avoided.

Not worried at all - you should come live in Cardiff where the shots are
plentiful, and cheap in price...
>

[baerauble]

Call me a doubter or cynical, how is giving 1650 pop ctrs help make the 2950 game
closer to following the book ?

Is the Free gonna start with the One Ring ? Will there be an additional NPC who
will keep tracking the ringbearer (Gollum) ? Will there be additional NPCs in form
of the Hobbits ?

There's just way too many things too different from "truth" and the 2950 game.

b.e.

[Michael Peters]

>
>
>Call me a doubter or cynical, how is giving 1650 pop ctrs help
>make the 2950 game
>closer to following the book ?



Seems someone read that the riders sent 6000 odd troops to NG aid (most of
which I think was HC). Now i'm hard pressed to imagine anyone recruiting
6000 HC in a 2950 game, and them sending them out.

Not to mention that the free were then outnumbered by the DS (god only knows
how many troops the DS had in that case).



>
>Is the Free gonna start with the One Ring ?

Frodo/biblo can start with the one ring. But since there is no nation called
'hobbits', he is an NPC. Best of luck in chasing him down.


> Will there be an
>additional NPC who
>will keep tracking the ringbearer (Gollum)

Gollum might be around, but it won't affect us.

? Will there be
>additional NPCs in form
>of the Hobbits ?

I think the hobbits encounter will be around like normal, and there might be
extra NPC. But I know I'm won't be wasting spells trying to locate Sam.


>
>There's just way too many things too different from "truth"
>and the 2950 game.

We can never play the exact WoTR , ie the rangers were pretty piss-weak, did
the northmen do ANYTHING in the book ? Galadriel removes the defenses of the
dragon lord capital without an agent skill, can your leader - like NG - go
crazy and try to kill another commander of the same nation ?.

But you can increase the pop centres so that people are not always fighing
with their economy, and they can get the large scale combat of 1650 with the
2950 nations and people.

I'm happy to see the game happen.

thanks
m

p.s actually I was thinking that it would be set up like a FA game (as the
pop centres are not fixed in the 2950 and 1650 setting). Except since we
don't pick characters (they are determined by the person who does all the
hard work), or SNA (also determined by someone else), we THINK its a 2950
game, with increased economic ability.

I'm prepared to wait and see if the characters remain the same class and
ability. I'm happy to play the game.





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[Heather Taylor]

Clint, you can count me in too for the 2950 War of the Ring scenario. To
echo others, thanks to Richard for doing the preparation.

Thanks
Adam Mitchell

[Heather Taylor]

>>I would be interested in the War of the Ring varient even though I
>>have only played in 2 games of 1650 so far - and been thrashed in
>>both.
>>Would players need to be very experienced to be able to handle it -
>>or is 2950 harder

I 'd rate the 1650 & 2950 about even, and I agree with Laurence that the
main problems for new players are ones of communication and co-ordination.
In this respect beginner DS players would maybe find 1650 harder since
they're economically outclassed at the start, and the need to co-operate is
thus greater.

I don't think it's always easier to go bankrupt in 2950. Whilst this may
well be true of the FP whose 1650 economies are much lkarger than in 2950 I
reckon that it's actually easier for many of the DS to go bankrupt in in
1650, because their economies are in many cases only marginally bigger than
in 2950 yet they have much larger armies to pay for. For example the Dog
Lord gets loads of extra cavalry in 1650 that isn't in 2950 and all he gets
to pay for it is one extra camp! The Blind Sorcerer is particularly badly
off since all he gets is 1 extra village to pay for a 5000 man army instead
of the 300 odd MA you get in 2950, and it starts miles away from the enemy
so if you want it to do anything you have to keep paying it until it can get
to the action.

It was also suggested that you might be able to get away more with mistakes
in 2950 due to the need to build up prior to attacking. However, because the
economies are generally smaller this makes 2950 nations more vulnerable to
early attacks, so whilst the action is on a smaller scale it can be just as
decisive.

Regards
Adam Mitchell

[Michael Peters]

>Richard thinks that higher gold reserves for the DS might help
>- any ideas
>of what players think might be a suitable level to make it so
>that if you
>don't get a FP you would be mightily disappointed?

Some supermen emissaries ? In the book, the DS were very good in leaking
info about how the riders were supplying horses to Sauron. They were also
good in getting the humans to think that the non-humans (elves mainly) were
another evil nation. That implies they were good emissaries (that or great
politicans in the art of lying)

I would also make murazor a much better commander. I remember in one game we
ordered him to raise the tax to 60%. The people declined his request. Now
the murazor in the book wasn't the sort of person that you would say no to.
He also led entire DS armies in battle. I wouldn't be doing that with a
crappy 40 point commander. If you don't decrease his mage, he will someone
who REALLY brings fear in the heart of the enemy whereever he pops up.

Maybe more pop centres in the south or out the back ? I seem to remember
reading that the Sauron had massive farms and pop centres out this way which
were funnelling in troops and food to the war.

while its slack to say, if some neutrals were DS at game start, then I
wouldn't mind the free having the advantage in new pop centres. I wouldn't
fix the WW to DS (since the book regularly talks about Saruman having the
choice of joining either side). And I wouldn't fix the duns (as its was only
stupidity on the riders part to ignore the duns complaints that allowed them
to go DS). I don't remember the rhun in the book, so I can't comment on
them. The corsairs are a nice nation to go either way (so I would leave them
neutral), so i'm thinking the khand might be a nice one to be DS at the
start (especially if they get more extra pop centres that were mentioned in
the book). Of course this defeats the purpose of a 10/10/5 split, but .....




thanks
m


>
>Clint
>************************************************** **
> Harlequin Games
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[Harlequin Games]

This partially "pre-aligned" game has been suggested to me before with this
scenario.

Opinions? Basically I want to wait for Bree to bring in the last 4 players
and then some sort of decision can be made on if there are to be changes.
One idea was a high Army base with gold to back them up to start with -
leaving the PCs as Richard suggests.

Clint


************************************************** **
Harlequin Games

mailto: pbm@...
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Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Peters" <MPeters@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com>
Sent: 17 May 2000 00:22
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] WoTR


>
> >Richard thinks that higher gold reserves for the DS might help
> >- any ideas
> >of what players think might be a suitable level to make it so
> >that if you
> >don't get a FP you would be mightily disappointed?
>
> Some supermen emissaries ? In the book, the DS were very good in leaking
> info about how the riders were supplying horses to Sauron. They were also
> good in getting the humans to think that the non-humans (elves mainly)
were
> another evil nation. That implies they were good emissaries (that or great
> politicans in the art of lying)
>
> I would also make murazor a much better commander. I remember in one game
we
> ordered him to raise the tax to 60%. The people declined his request. Now
> the murazor in the book wasn't the sort of person that you would say no
to.
> He also led entire DS armies in battle. I wouldn't be doing that with a
> crappy 40 point commander. If you don't decrease his mage, he will someone
> who REALLY brings fear in the heart of the enemy whereever he pops up.
>
> Maybe more pop centres in the south or out the back ? I seem to remember
> reading that the Sauron had massive farms and pop centres out this way
which
> were funnelling in troops and food to the war.
>
> while its slack to say, if some neutrals were DS at game start, then I
> wouldn't mind the free having the advantage in new pop centres. I wouldn't
> fix the WW to DS (since the book regularly talks about Saruman having the
> choice of joining either side). And I wouldn't fix the duns (as its was
only
> stupidity on the riders part to ignore the duns complaints that allowed
them
> to go DS). I don't remember the rhun in the book, so I can't comment on
> them. The corsairs are a nice nation to go either way (so I would leave
them
> neutral), so i'm thinking the khand might be a nice one to be DS at the
> start (especially if they get more extra pop centres that were mentioned
in
> the book). Of course this defeats the purpose of a 10/10/5 split, but
......
>
>
>
>
> thanks
> m
>
>
> >
> >Clint
> >************************************************** **
> > Harlequin Games
> >
> > mailto: pbm@...
> > www.harlequingames.com
> > Middle Earth - Legends- Serim Ral
> > CTF 2187 - Starquest - Crack of Doom
> > Battle of the Planets - Exile
> >************************************************** **
> >340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
> >Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
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> >
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[Michael Peters]

>
>This partially "pre-aligned" game has been suggested to me
>before with this
>scenario.
>

I always prefer the same number of free and dark in game (I once played a FA
game where the DS outnumbered the free and even us non-free questioned what
was going on). While a pre-aligned khand is good news for the DS, I don't
like forcing them to do it. I more prefer the good old 'if you go free we
WILL turn around and kill you first' approach.




>Opinions? Basically I want to wait for Bree to bring in the
>last 4 players
>and then some sort of decision can be made on if there are to
>be changes.
>One idea was a high Army base with gold to back them up to start with -
>leaving the PCs as Richard suggests.


I'm ok with that. The DS armies can be used for offense, and the gold allows
the DS to keep the armies in the field (but not forever). I was against the
initial money but nothing else approach, but money AND armies is nice.

I would rather have that option than the khand as DS on t1. With good armies
in the back door they can threaten the Khand into going dark.

but can I still have murazor as a good commander ?

m




>
>Clint
>
>
>
>************************************************** **
> Harlequin Games
>
> mailto: pbm@...
> www.harlequingames.com
> Middle Earth - Legends- Serim Ral
> CTF 2187 - Starquest - Crack of Doom
> Battle of the Planets - Exile
>************************************************** **
>340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
>Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
>Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Peters" <MPeters@...>
>To: <mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com>
>Sent: 17 May 2000 00:22
>Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] WoTR
>
>
>>
>> >Richard thinks that higher gold reserves for the DS might help
>> >- any ideas
>> >of what players think might be a suitable level to make it so
>> >that if you
>> >don't get a FP you would be mightily disappointed?
>>
>> Some supermen emissaries ? In the book, the DS were very
>good in leaking
>> info about how the riders were supplying horses to Sauron.
>They were also
>> good in getting the humans to think that the non-humans
>(elves mainly)
>were
>> another evil nation. That implies they were good emissaries
>(that or great
>> politicans in the art of lying)
>>
>> I would also make murazor a much better commander. I
>remember in one game
>we
>> ordered him to raise the tax to 60%. The people declined his
>request. Now
>> the murazor in the book wasn't the sort of person that you
>would say no
>to.
>> He also led entire DS armies in battle. I wouldn't be doing
>that with a
>> crappy 40 point commander. If you don't decrease his mage,
>he will someone
>> who REALLY brings fear in the heart of the enemy whereever
>he pops up.
>>
>> Maybe more pop centres in the south or out the back ? I seem
>to remember
>> reading that the Sauron had massive farms and pop centres
>out this way
>which
>> were funnelling in troops and food to the war.
>>
>> while its slack to say, if some neutrals were DS at game
>start, then I
>> wouldn't mind the free having the advantage in new pop
>centres. I wouldn't
>> fix the WW to DS (since the book regularly talks about
>Saruman having the
>> choice of joining either side). And I wouldn't fix the duns
>(as its was
>only
>> stupidity on the riders part to ignore the duns complaints
>that allowed
>them
>> to go DS). I don't remember the rhun in the book, so I can't
>comment on
>> them. The corsairs are a nice nation to go either way (so I
>would leave
>them
>> neutral), so i'm thinking the khand might be a nice one to
>be DS at the
>> start (especially if they get more extra pop centres that
>were mentioned
>in
>> the book). Of course this defeats the purpose of a 10/10/5 split, but
>.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks
>> m
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Clint
>> >************************************************** **
>> > Harlequin Games
>> >
>> > mailto: pbm@...
>> > www.harlequingames.com
>> > Middle Earth - Legends- Serim Ral
>> > CTF 2187 - Starquest - Crack of Doom
>> > Battle of the Planets - Exile
>> >************************************************** **
>> >340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
>> >Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
>> >Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >---------
>> >Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
>> >http://click.egroups.com/1/3019/9/_/430399/_/958498268/
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >
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>> >To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
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>> >
>>
>>
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[jshushan@...]

In a message dated 5/16/00 6:35:26 PM Central Daylight Time,
MPeters@... writes:

<<
while its slack to say, if some neutrals were DS at game start, then I
wouldn't mind the free having the advantage in new pop centres. I wouldn't
fix the WW to DS (since the book regularly talks about Saruman having the
choice of joining either side). And I wouldn't fix the duns (as its was only
stupidity on the riders part to ignore the duns complaints that allowed them
to go DS). I don't remember the rhun in the book, so I can't comment on
them. The corsairs are a nice nation to go either way (so I would leave them
neutral), so i'm thinking the khand might be a nice one to be DS at the
start (especially if they get more extra pop centres that were mentioned in
the book). Of course this defeats the purpose of a 10/10/5 split, but .....



thanks
m
>>

I think this could be a way to go. If we recall the trilogy, all five
neutrals went ds. That would even the scenario, and then some. One way to
do it would be two neutrals ds at the start. Either the KE and the RE or the
KE and the CO. As, to my reading, the saga appears to put the Duns with
Saruman, leave both neutral.

Any number crunchers out there?

How would putting two neutals ds to start even the economic edge the set up
appears to give the free?

Thoughts? Ideas? Rotten Veggies? Etc.

Jonathan Shushan

[Laurence G. Tilley]

Harlequin Games <pbm@...> wrote
>This partially "pre-aligned" game has been suggested to me before with this
>scenario.
>
>Opinions?
WotR is supposed to be "more" accurate in its simulation of the events
in Tolkein. The neutrals need to start as neutrals.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley
http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

[baerauble]

All this WoTR stuff is confusing, tell you what, I propose a new game and call it
the WoT variant, make it a FA game.

The nations in this variant will be Aes Sedai, Aiel, etc etc with chars like
Morainne, Rand Al'Thor, etc etc. How about it ?

b.e.

[Harlequin Games]

Got a player base? :-)

Clint
************************************************** **
Harlequin Games

mailto: pbm@...
www.harlequingames.com
Middle Earth - Legends- Serim Ral
CTF 2187 - Starquest - Crack of Doom
Battle of the Planets - Exile
************************************************** **
340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP
Tel 029 2062 5665 12-6.30 Weekdays
Fax 029 2062 5532 24 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "baerauble" <baerauble@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com>
Sent: 19 May 2000 07:52
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] WoTR

> All this WoTR stuff is confusing, tell you what, I propose a new game and
call it
> the WoT variant, make it a FA game.
>
> The nations in this variant will be Aes Sedai, Aiel, etc etc with chars
like
> Morainne, Rand Al'Thor, etc etc. How about it ?
>
>
> b.e.
>
>
>
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[Michael Peters]

Richard John Devereux <devereux@...> wrote
>Will you put me, William, Laurence,
>Mike S and Andy in the DS team and give us allies drawn at random? This is
>still a bit of a bummer as you will have to decide who plays which nations
>rather than the team decide amongst itself democratically (well, more or
>less!).

>There's nothing to stop the random allocation of nations followed by a
>short round of negotiation is there? Nation swaps if mutual consent can
>be achieved?


I'm fine with random nations/sides, and I'm also fine with people swapping.

Some people might get a position they have already played, and would swap
for a nation they haven't played (the reverse is also true if they want to
play a nation they already know how to run).

And some people really don't like playing nations like NG or Dragon Lord
that spend all their time repelling borders (and the only pop centre they
see burning is one of their own).

thanks
m

P.S. My huge Harad army is on the corsairs capital in G34. Is that a huge
corsair army I see against me ? Nope :)

[Laurence G. Tilley]

Michael Peters <MPeters@...> wrote
>And some people really don't like playing nations like NG or Dragon Lord
>that spend all their time repelling borders (and the only pop centre they
>see burning is one of their own).
You must be one of those naff NG players, I've seen your type in action
:-) I've also seen people who can make it into an effective aggressor.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley
http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/