middle earth in the USA

[Michael Peters]

Harlequin Games is running the middle earth games in the USA for deft ?

I wasn't expecting to see that
m

[Laurence G. Tilley]

Michael Peters <mpeters@...> wrote
>Harlequin Games is running the middle earth games in the USA for deft ?
>
>I wasn't expecting to see that
Nor I. Here's hoping that they haven't bitten off more than they can
chew, and that the service to old players won't suffer as a result.

Good Luck to you Harlequin in the extended venture.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

[Harlequin Games]

> Nor I. Here's hoping that they haven't bitten off more than they can
> chew, and that the service to old players won't suffer as a result.
>
> Good Luck to you Harlequin in the extended venture.
>
> Regards,
>
> Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

Thanks to Laurence and all the players who've sent us best wishes! We
appreciate it.

Ed is now working full time and we have recruited Stuart from the US. He was
DGE's main ME guy- a kind of American Clint. So we should definitely have
the manpower to cope with a doubling in workload.

Actually, you should all see an improvement in the game. Firstly the huge
player pool means games fill quickly and we can find 25 players who all want
to play the 'Mages only' variant... ;-)

Also, we have just acquired input checking software which GSI had given DGE
but not us. This should improve our error rate.

Sam

[Laurence G. Tilley]

rhopp@... wrote
>I didn't see any mention of Fourth Age games in the posts I read,
>other than one mention of people not liking it. I love Fourth Age!
>I don't think I'd ever want to try the other two scenarios. It
>sounds as though those games are largely filled with veterans armed
>with complete knowledge of all 25 nations' starting PC locations,
>character names/stats, and artifacts.
Yes, but that's why it's much more credible than the stupid FA. In a
real war between nations, you start by knowing the basic geography of
enemy lands, and have an idea of who their leading politicians are, and
their military capability. This enables you to plan your war.
Surprises will come up later, but nothing so crazy as not knowing
whether your immediate neighbour is friend or foe, an agent or military
specialist, or even where his population centres are situated.

>My fear is, as a newbie and
>ignorant of all this valuable info, I'd be crushed within 10 turns,
>damaging my team's chances for victory.
All the startup information is freely available on the web, or in text
files. As a newbie you _should_ be immediately adopted by other players
on the team, and guided through the early stages. That's another reason
I don't like FA, it seems to me not to encourage team play in the same
way that the proper scenarios do, and to me that's why ME is such a good
game. I also get the impression, that Americans tend not to team up as
wholeheartedly as we do, and that some of them even take notice of the
VCs and VPs! That I suppose is another good thing about the Harlequin
take-over - we shall be able to teach you chaps how to play properly ;-)

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

[ubi@...]

I think you should consider using the American way of setups:
Each player wishes 3-4 nations and picks one that he definitely does
not want to play, and then DGE assign the nations. This is a great
way of getting games started faster, and assuring two friends does
not sign up as Rhudaur and Dunlendings !!
The only way to make sure you get the nation you really want is to
use a winners certificate (which should be introduced in Harlequin as
well).

Happy New Year to all
Ulrik Bisgaard

P.S. How about those (i.e. me) who have winner certificates from the
US and free setups ?

--- In mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com, pbm@h... wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> Clint here, we're (Sam & I) over in Miami at DGE at present
finishing
> off the packaging of the games here. Yes, we are taking over DGE's
> games - making some 60+ games that we are now running of ME - with
> over 700 players. Whew!
>

[Benjamin Shushan]

Good question, Ulrik.

What about GWCs?

Also, while I generally prefer Harlequin's "first-come, first-served" basis
for allocating positions, it _does_ lend itself to "neutral stacking" (not
only by friends playing neighboring neutrals, but by friends of players
playing an aligned nation taking neutral positions and essentially being
"with that allegiance" before the game ever starts ...). I might suggest
some combination of preference-listing and first-to-sign-up gets priorirty,
along with GWC preferences ... more or less like DGE (and formerly GSI) has
done it.

$.02 (American!)

b

ubi@... wrote:

> I think you should consider using the American way of setups:
> Each player wishes 3-4 nations and picks one that he definitely does
> not want to play, and then DGE assign the nations. This is a great
> way of getting games started faster, and assuring two friends does
> not sign up as Rhudaur and Dunlendings !!
> The only way to make sure you get the nation you really want is to
> use a winners certificate (which should be introduced in Harlequin as
> well).
>
> Happy New Year to all
> Ulrik Bisgaard
>
> P.S. How about those (i.e. me) who have winner certificates from the
> US and free setups ?
>
> --- In mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com, pbm@h... wrote:
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > Clint here, we're (Sam & I) over in Miami at DGE at present
> finishing
> > off the packaging of the games here. Yes, we are taking over DGE's
> > games - making some 60+ games that we are now running of ME - with
> > over 700 players. Whew!
> >
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm

[Harlequin Games]

Clint's viewpoint. - I think it will help things - especially longterm. For
one thing I get to earn some more money... :-) Also we get to go to the USA
from time to time to that's cool - well warm to hot actually!

From a more serious point of view - the extra players give us more
stability - faster game set-up and a greater pool to take up games when drop
outs occur. Also more variants can now be brought into play. There are just
so many options on the horizon that it would take ages to write them all
down not alone discuss them. I think that service will improve - there will
be the usual panic month when anything that can go wrong will go wrong - but
we've done this a lot now so hopefully can work throught that with minimal
impact on you all.

The US contigent seem to go for more FA games which is good - 11 games of
1650, 7 2950, 12 1000 games with around 7 games ready to set-up in addition
to the UK situation. The ME player is basically doubled and we have some
more up-to-date equipment and versions of the program (Such as the input
checker which we'll be implementing asap).

I think that it will also help guarantee the future of MEPBM as well - the
UK market was growing but I know that elsewhere there are some problems -
this will give them a home to come to if they want it.

Clint

> Michael Peters <mpeters@...> wrote
> >Harlequin Games is running the middle earth games in the USA for deft ?
> >
> >I wasn't expecting to see that
> Nor I. Here's hoping that they haven't bitten off more than they can
> chew, and that the service to old players won't suffer as a result.
>
> Good Luck to you Harlequin in the extended venture.
>
> Regards,
>
> Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>

[Harlequin Games]

I'll look into that - the problem that I see with the Individual winners is
that it encourages individual play in a team game. Something that i have
got the impression most players do not like. You get the free set-up as it
is and We are very likely to get the certificate up and running again. What
do others think? From what I can see when this came up before players like
to play specific nations and I generally ask players what they do want to
play and tell them what is available - by only allowing one game to take
start-ups at a time games actually get filled more quickly as well.

Clint

> I think you should consider using the American way of setups:
> Each player wishes 3-4 nations and picks one that he definitely does
> not want to play, and then DGE assign the nations. This is a great
> way of getting games started faster, and assuring two friends does
> not sign up as Rhudaur and Dunlendings !!
> The only way to make sure you get the nation you really want is to
> use a winners certificate (which should be introduced in Harlequin as
> well).
>
> Happy New Year to all
> Ulrik Bisgaard
>
> P.S. How about those (i.e. me) who have winner certificates from the
> US and free setups ?
>
> --- In mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com, pbm@h... wrote:
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > Clint here, we're (Sam & I) over in Miami at DGE at present
> finishing
> > off the packaging of the games here. Yes, we are taking over DGE's
> > games - making some 60+ games that we are now running of ME - with
> > over 700 players. Whew!
> >
>
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>

[Harlequin Games]

If the World champs are anything to go by the US team is the one to beat!!!
:-)

Clint

>I also get the impression, that Americans tend not to team up as
> wholeheartedly as we do, and that some of them even take notice of the
> VCs and VPs! That I suppose is another good thing about the Harlequin
> take-over - we shall be able to teach you chaps how to play properly ;-)

[Harlequin Games]

Nor us! We are happy (and a little aprehensive although confident) that we
have it - but as you can imagine we have a lot of work on! Two and a half
days holiday is all I got but my family (thankfully) were very forgiving.
9am arrival on Christmas day (with baggage gone missing!) in the UK (we did
get to see Santa on his sledge btw!) not advisable! Falling asleep in the
in-laws on Christmas day was very welcome followed by the 16 hours of
kipping very welcome!

C
> Harlequin Games is running the middle earth games in the USA for deft ?
>
> I wasn't expecting to see that
> m

[Harlequin Games]

We try to discourage this - we check that players are allied and as with all
such things players who are "aligned" to start with should be aware that
this is not allowed and should even be considered cheating. Looking at the
DGE style games take LONGER to set-up than over here. I'll discuss this
with Stu when he comes over.

Clint

> Good question, Ulrik.
>
> What about GWCs?
>
> Also, while I generally prefer Harlequin's "first-come, first-served"
basis
> for allocating positions, it _does_ lend itself to "neutral stacking" (not
> only by friends playing neighboring neutrals, but by friends of players
> playing an aligned nation taking neutral positions and essentially being
> "with that allegiance" before the game ever starts ...). I might suggest
> some combination of preference-listing and first-to-sign-up gets
priorirty,
> along with GWC preferences ... more or less like DGE (and formerly GSI)
has
> done it.
>
> $.02 (American!)

[baerauble]

> Clint's viewpoint. - I think it will help things - especially longterm.
For
> one thing I get to earn some more money... :-) Also we get to go to the
USA
> from time to time to that's cool - well warm to hot actually!
>
Gee, you're employing ?

b.e.

[Benjamin Shushan]

Thanks for the promo. We're doing our small part to remind all who's been
carrying who for 200-aught years ... :)

b (Ben Shushan)
Captain, Team USA (1-0, and counting ... :)

Harlequin Games wrote:

> If the World champs are anything to go by the US team is the one to beat!!!
> :-)
>
> Clint
>
> >I also get the impression, that Americans tend not to team up as
> > wholeheartedly as we do, and that some of them even take notice of the
> > VCs and VPs! That I suppose is another good thing about the Harlequin
> > take-over - we shall be able to teach you chaps how to play properly ;-)
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm

[Kevin]

Quick Questions about the 'takeover'...

Will Harlequin be running games from the 'USA office'?
What will happen to the USA postal only players? They will still be able
to send in their turns to be run in the USA won't they? You're not
expecting them to mail Cardiff?

And they can send their cheques to the Harlequin USA branch as well?
(Assuming they don't want to use the 'iniquitous' [copyright L. Tilley]
credit card system?)

I think these are the biggest issues for the yanks. Could you clear these
points up for them?

Apologies if you've explained this already but because of my website I've
had emails from worried American players who think I should know all about
it!!!

Kev





At 06:41 29/12/00 +0800, you wrote:
>> Clint's viewpoint. - I think it will help things - especially longterm.
>For
>> one thing I get to earn some more money... :-) Also we get to go to the
>USA
>> from time to time to that's cool - well warm to hot actually!
>>
>Gee, you're employing ?
>
>
>b.e.
>
>
>
>
>Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
>To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
>http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>
>
>

[Laurence G. Tilley]

Kevin <kevin@...> wrote
>Will Harlequin be running games from the 'USA office'?
>What will happen to the USA postal only players? They will still be able
>to send in their turns to be run in the USA won't they? You're not
>expecting them to mail Cardiff?
>
>And they can send their cheques to the Harlequin USA branch as well?
>(Assuming they don't want to use the 'iniquitous' [copyright L. Tilley]
>credit card system?)
Hurrah! Yes I've been waiting for an opportune moment to ask on that...
Now that you're a Mid-Atlantic organisation, do I count as an "Overseas
Player"? ;-)

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

[Jason Bennett]

Harlequin Games wrote:
>
> I'll look into that - the problem that I see with the Individual winners is
> that it encourages individual play in a team game. Something that i have
> got the impression most players do not like. You get the free set-up as it
> is and We are very likely to get the certificate up and running again. What
> do others think? From what I can see when this came up before players like

The more Harlequin can do to eliminate individual victory conditions, or
at least make them consistent with team play, the better. When I get
personally rewarded for attacking my allies (as several of my victory
conditions say), that's never good.

jason

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@...
Software developer, cryptography buff, gamer
Believer in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord
http://members.home.net/jasonab/

[Harlequin Games]

Yeh I have seen this one before - no doubt there are some Euro-opinions on
this... :@-)

Clint

> Thanks for the promo. We're doing our small part to remind all who's been
> carrying who for 200-aught years ... :)
>
> b (Ben Shushan)
> Captain, Team USA (1-0, and counting ... :)
>
> Harlequin Games wrote:
>
> > If the World champs are anything to go by the US team is the one to
beat!!!
> > :-)
> >
> > Clint
> >

[Harlequin Games]

Something like that... :-)

Clint
> >And they can send their cheques to the Harlequin USA branch as well?
> >(Assuming they don't want to use the 'iniquitous' [copyright L. Tilley]
> >credit card system?)
> Hurrah! Yes I've been waiting for an opportune moment to ask on that...
> Now that you're a Mid-Atlantic organisation, do I count as an "Overseas
> Player"? ;-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/
>

[Harlequin Games]

Uh? Sorry I don't understand.

Clint

> > Clint's viewpoint. - I think it will help things - especially longterm.
> For
> > one thing I get to earn some more money... :-) Also we get to go to the
> USA
> > from time to time to that's cool - well warm to hot actually!
> >
> Gee, you're employing ?
>
>
> b.e.

[Harlequin Games]

Yep -- that's what we think as well!!! :-) When we have gone through the
1-3 months pain period we can look into details like this properly. I did
try to get a game winner as voted by team up and running but thatdropped by
the wayside. I'll try again soon.

Clint

> Harlequin Games wrote:
> >
> > I'll look into that - the problem that I see with the Individual winners
is
> > that it encourages individual play in a team game. Something that i
have
> > got the impression most players do not like. You get the free set-up as
it
> > is and We are very likely to get the certificate up and running again.
What
> > do others think? From what I can see when this came up before players
like
>
> The more Harlequin can do to eliminate individual victory conditions, or
> at least make them consistent with team play, the better. When I get
> personally rewarded for attacking my allies (as several of my victory
> conditions say), that's never good.
>
> jason
>
>
> --
> Jason Bennett, jasonab@...
> Software developer, cryptography buff, gamer
> Believer in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord
> http://members.home.net/jasonab/
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>

[Harlequin Games]

> Will Harlequin be running games from the 'USA office'?
** Nope
> What will happen to the USA postal only players?
** We have organised a mail drop address for them to get their turns to and
then they are sent to us the same day. We then send the turns to that
location (in the US) after processing and they get printed out and mailed
out. We have an ExDGE player website for the email available players to
check out. (Forget the name for the moment - will get it sorted tomorrow).

> They will still be able
> to send in their turns to be run in the USA won't they? You're not
> expecting them to mail Cardiff?
>
*** Nope - we have done a fair bit of research on this and think the mailing
address in California is best - we trust the guys at that end not to mess up
as we licence another of their games (Legends).
> And they can send their cheques to the Harlequin USA branch as well?
*** We will get the funds details sent across at the same time, also funds
will be made payable to MEPBM. We will see how many such payments are made
and then reconsider it in a months time - ie if lots then we might open a US
account to have the funds paid into - if not many then we'll just get them
forwarded. Heh cool - we'll be able to have an offshore account... :-)

> (Assuming they don't want to use the 'iniquitous' [copyright L. Tilley]
> credit card system?)
** Up to them if they want - most players like it.
>
> I think these are the biggest issues for the yanks. Could you clear these
> points up for them?
** Hopefully have. Have I missed something? Please advise if I have - I am
happy to go over this as many times as need be - especially if I have missed
something or not been clear enough.
>
> Apologies if you've explained this already but because of my website I've
> had emails from worried American players who think I should know all about
> it!!!
>
*** Please pass them onto us directly if you can Kev. We have sent out a
mailing to the postal players but of course with the quickness of it all
(from the player perspective) and the Christmas post they might not have got
the postal note yet. We are not 100% sure (well we KNOW that some emails
bounced) that everyone has got the information about the takeover yet so
please spread the word. The DGE office is being kept open to forward
turns (faxes/postal/email), and we have several email redirections going on
(they work we have tried them multiple times!)

Hopefully there will be minimal delays in the turns and missed turns - I
would be mis-informing you if I was to say that it will go 100% correctly
but we think we have covered every angle that we can think of (we've done
this close on double figures now for takeover of games so know most of the
pitfalls). But if you think of anything please inform us!

Our biggest headache right now it getting the two systems amalgamated for
the best from both. Sorry for the rush in this all (from player
perspective - we've been working on the deal and more or less agreed it
since October but were honour (or should that be honor?!) bound not to say
anything). One thing that I would like to know is if there is anyone who
has dropped because of the takeover - if so can players give us their
contact details and we can contact them and try to give them some
assurances.

Clint
> Kev

[ubi@...]

Good point. But I still would like to see the US way of signing up
applied.

Ulrik Bisgaard

--- In mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com, "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@l...>
wrote:
> ubi@p... wrote
> >The only way to make sure you get the nation you really want is to
> >use a winners certificate (which should be introduced in Harlequin
as
> >well).
> No thanks. Let's not have the worst of American play inflicted
upon us
> in Britain. "Winners certificates" would be completely unfair to
those
> of us who play for the team, and who are interested in team victory
and
> not individual placings - which are of course utterly stupid in a
game
> where starting conditions are completely different for each player.
>
> Regards,
>
> Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

[Benjamin Shushan]

Agreed, there is merit to both systems. I will say that Harly games tend to
fill up quicker ... If the neutral-related issues I brought up can be
addressed (as Clint suggests), I would happily see "the Harly Way" adopted
across the board ...

$.02 (additional ..)

b

ubi@... wrote:

> Good point. But I still would like to see the US way of signing up
> applied.
>
> Ulrik Bisgaard
>
> --- In mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com, "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@l...>
> wrote:
> > ubi@p... wrote
> > >The only way to make sure you get the nation you really want is to
> > >use a winners certificate (which should be introduced in Harlequin
> as
> > >well).
> > No thanks. Let's not have the worst of American play inflicted
> upon us
> > in Britain. "Winners certificates" would be completely unfair to
> those
> > of us who play for the team, and who are interested in team victory
> and
> > not individual placings - which are of course utterly stupid in a
> game
> > where starting conditions are completely different for each player.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm

[Harlequin Games]

Hya Ben (et al)

Thoughts on this as before - basically we trust Neutrals not to abuse the
situation- the game is abusable in many different ways if players want to to
do that (rather not go into that really). But with more games able to fill
up maybe we can start doing two 1650 games at a time? (As per usual we go
for team games as separate to this). Having Neutrals randomly allocated to
games (not positions) does help stop the cheating but it slows game creation
down - so the knock on effect is that more players drop due to the delay in
start-up and enthusiasm lags. (Especially 2950 & 1000 games!)

Which to go with?!

We invariably have the odd Neutral as one of the last positions to fill as
it is (Rhudaur normally, Easterlings regularly, in 2950 Khand and Rhun). My
preference is trust the players and go for the speedier option, rather than
the delayed but safer method. (I would estimate it some 6 weeks delay in
getting a game up based on what I have seen before with the slower option
with one game and 2 x5 neutrals allocated, or two games setting up some 2-3
months delay).

Clint

> Agreed, there is merit to both systems. I will say that Harly games tend
to
> fill up quicker ... If the neutral-related issues I brought up can be
> addressed (as Clint suggests), I would happily see "the Harly Way" adopted
> across the board ...
>
> $.02 (additional ..)