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JeremyRichman@...
2nd February 2008, 11:30 AM
I noticed that there were references made in
another thread to the special FA games I've
organized. I thought I'd take a moment to
explain them.

LAS:
Sometime ago, some player who had gotten rather
frustrated with the power of agents in ME1000
proposed what he called a "Limited Agents Scenario",
where three of the SNA's were forbidden:
1. +20 Kidnap/Assassinate
2. Double-scouting
3. Stealth-rank bonus

I took up the idea and advertised for interested
players, for what in the US is called a team game,
i.e. teams of from 1-4 (or 1-2 if a Kingdom is
involved). I got enough response to fill a game
within just a couple months, and two more were
filled within the next 6 months or so. In addition,
I've played in two LAS grudge games.

Overall I think it has been a big improvement over
regular FA. It doesn't eliminate agents but it
reduces their importance down to reasonable levels,
and tends to delay the time when agents become
overpowering, so that you don't lose four characters
in your capital on turn 2 by four agents who
successfully scouted all your characters. (Including
your newly named 30-pt agent with 30 stealth, as
happened to me. In that game all my commanders
were taken out within about 5 turns.)

NKA:
However, I personally love ME for the economic and
military aspects, and I found even the limited
agent power in LAS to be more than I liked.

(I freely admit I haven't the flair or talent for
managing agents or for defending against them, and
I really don't like having my armies go away from
having its commanders nuked. But I also see agents
as a sort of "leveling" effect. It takes a lot of
planning, resource management and character orders
to mount military campaigns, but just a few high-level
agents can be immensely effective and doesn't require
as much effort or skill to wield. I've had discussions
about this and some players agree, some don't.)

Be that as it may, I decided to try to take LAS one
step further, and I invented NKA, which stands for
No Kidnapping or Assassinations. The only SNA
disallowed is +20 to kidnap or assassinate, and the
615 and 620 orders are completely disallowed. (So,
you either don't have agents or you use them for
other things.)

I have filled one NKA game that is up to turn 6, too
early to really compare it to LAS but so far so good.
I have also filled NKA#2 but we're waiting for the
setups to arrive and for Harlequin to finish getting
current DGE games up and running.

I have been in the process of taking team signups
for NKA#3, which is about 25% filled. With Harlequin
taking over from DGE and being more interested in
ME variants, possibly they will take over from me,
though I'm quite willing to continue to handle it.
But I'll wait to worry about it until they are past
the transition time.

Jeremy Richman

P.S. I'm still taking signups for NKA#3. If you
would like to sign up, send me an email and tell
me your team-size and your choice of allegiance
if you have one. I ask that if possible you
specify a backup choice of allegiance. (So far
in the three LAS games and two NKA games about 95%
of the teams or more have gotten their first choice.)

My email is: JeremyRichman@...

Laurence G. Tilley
2nd February 2008, 11:30 AM
JeremyRichman@... wrote
>I noticed that there were references made in
>another thread to the special FA games I've
>organized. I thought I'd take a moment to
>explain them.
>
>LAS:
>NKA:
Thanks very much for that. I thought the ideas very interesting.
Personally I think that 4th Age stinks - mostly due to that fact that I
think that not knowing where your enemy's pops are is rather stupid.
BUT I think I should very much like to see how your LAS and NKA work on
1650 and 2950.

I commented when writing up Harlequin's game 32, that the fact that the
ClL did nothing (afterword, 6 kills in 24 turns, none of them of
strategic significance!) reminded me of another game where the ClL had
been eliminated early, and which was also a very good game. Your LAS
and NKA would replicate this, and take out double scouting as well.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

Richard John Devereux
2nd February 2008, 11:30 AM
----- Original Message -----
From: <JeremyRichman@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 5:42 AM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Alternate FA Scenarios: LAS and NKA


> I noticed that there were references made in
> another thread to the special FA games I've
> organized. I thought I'd take a moment to
> explain them.
>
> LAS:
> Sometime ago, some player who had gotten rather
> frustrated with the power of agents in ME1000
> proposed what he called a "Limited Agents Scenario",
> where three of the SNA's were forbidden:
> 1. +20 Kidnap/Assassinate
> 2. Double-scouting
> 3. Stealth-rank bonus
>
> I took up the idea and advertised for interested
> players, for what in the US is called a team game,
> i.e. teams of from 1-4 (or 1-2 if a Kingdom is
> involved). I got enough response to fill a game
> within just a couple months, and two more were
> filled within the next 6 months or so. In addition,
> I've played in two LAS grudge games.
>
> Overall I think it has been a big improvement over
> regular FA. It doesn't eliminate agents but it
> reduces their importance down to reasonable levels,
> and tends to delay the time when agents become
> overpowering, so that you don't lose four characters
> in your capital on turn 2 by four agents who
> successfully scouted all your characters. (Including
> your newly named 30-pt agent with 30 stealth, as
> happened to me. In that game all my commanders
> were taken out within about 5 turns.)
>
>
> NKA:
> However, I personally love ME for the economic and
> military aspects, and I found even the limited
> agent power in LAS to be more than I liked.
>
> (I freely admit I haven't the flair or talent for
> managing agents or for defending against them, and
> I really don't like having my armies go away from
> having its commanders nuked. But I also see agents
> as a sort of "leveling" effect. It takes a lot of
> planning, resource management and character orders
> to mount military campaigns, but just a few high-level
> agents can be immensely effective and doesn't require
> as much effort or skill to wield. I've had discussions
> about this and some players agree, some don't.)
>
> Be that as it may, I decided to try to take LAS one
> step further, and I invented NKA, which stands for
> No Kidnapping or Assassinations. The only SNA
> disallowed is +20 to kidnap or assassinate, and the
> 615 and 620 orders are completely disallowed. (So,
> you either don't have agents or you use them for
> other things.)
>
> I have filled one NKA game that is up to turn 6, too
> early to really compare it to LAS but so far so good.
> I have also filled NKA#2 but we're waiting for the
> setups to arrive and for Harlequin to finish getting
> current DGE games up and running.
>
> I have been in the process of taking team signups
> for NKA#3, which is about 25% filled. With Harlequin
> taking over from DGE and being more interested in
> ME variants, possibly they will take over from me,
> though I'm quite willing to continue to handle it.
> But I'll wait to worry about it until they are past
> the transition time.
>
> Jeremy Richman
>
> P.S. I'm still taking signups for NKA#3. If you
> would like to sign up, send me an email and tell
> me your team-size and your choice of allegiance
> if you have one. I ask that if possible you
> specify a backup choice of allegiance. (So far
> in the three LAS games and two NKA games about 95%
> of the teams or more have gotten their first choice.)
>
> My email is: JeremyRichman@...
>
>
RD: I think NKA is a great idea. Personally I'd also get rid of 690 steal
gold. It is absurd that a handful of thieves can steal enough gold to
influence a nation's economy or even, in extreme cases, eliminate the nation
thru bankruptcy! I don't have a problem with agents stealing artifacts.

Whilst I would love to sign up for a NKA game, I simply don't have time at
present. It would be irresponsible to start a new game if it meant that one
of my games would not get the attention it deserves.

I will certainly keep NKA in mind for a future game.

Regards,

Richard.

JeremyRichman@...
2nd February 2008, 11:30 AM
--- In mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com, "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@l...>
wrote:
> JeremyRichman@c... wrote
> >I noticed that there were references made in
> >another thread to the special FA games I've
> >organized. I thought I'd take a moment to
> >explain them.
> >
> >LAS:
> >NKA:
> Thanks very much for that. I thought the ideas very interesting.
> Personally I think that 4th Age stinks - mostly due to that fact
that I
> think that not knowing where your enemy's pops are is rather stupid.

That can be frustrating, if you have no idea where to look.
But OTOH it rehabilitates the notion of needing to scout/scry
around in the unknown areas near you.

> BUT I think I should very much like to see how your LAS and NKA work
on
> 1650 and 2950.

I've always though 1650 would be lots more
exciting in NKA mode. In past discussions,
most players thought that the DS would be
too disadvantaged, but considering they are
already advantaged to the extend of winning
2/3 of the games, I think it would be worth
a try. I'd never thought of LAS for 1650
but you're right, that could be a very effective
balancing scenario. Hmmmm.

Jeremy

>
> I commented when writing up Harlequin's game 32, that the fact that
the
> ClL did nothing (afterword, 6 kills in 24 turns, none of them of
> strategic significance!) reminded me of another game where the ClL
had
> been eliminated early, and which was also a very good game. Your
LAS
> and NKA would replicate this, and take out double scouting as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

Harlequin Games
2nd February 2008, 11:30 AM
> RD: I think NKA is a great idea. Personally I'd also get rid of 690 steal
> gold. It is absurd that a handful of thieves can steal enough gold to
> influence a nation's economy or even, in extreme cases, eliminate the
nation
> thru bankruptcy! I don't have a problem with agents stealing artifacts.

Similarly ridiculous that Emmies can turn up at your capital and Influence
it away after being under your control for hundreds of years... :-)
Similarly for Spells - why can't Mages teach Mages spells? blah, blah.
It's a game mechanic - like it or not.
>

I agree with you both though - having NKA or similar games is fine and an
excellent improvement/variant.

Clint

JeremyRichman@...
2nd February 2008, 11:30 AM
--- In mepbmlist (AT) egroups (DOT) com, ditletang@c... wrote:
> I prefer the NKA vs LAS. It is really the kidnap/ass
> at +20 that is unbalanced. How many of those silly
> horror stories do people have regarding double scouting?
> Without the k/a, scout all you want.....without the k/a,
> who will want it anyway - let the market decide....!
>
> Brad Brunet

Hi Brad,

I might not have been clear about NKA.
With NKA, the kidnap and assassination orders
are not allowed. So not only do you not
kidnap or assassinate at +20 -- you don't do
either order at all, no matter what your rank!
Both 615 and 620 are verboten. Because of that,
the +20 SNA is not allowed, but that is just
to prevent confusion. If you were allowed to
put 12K of your SNA's into it, the 12K would
be wasted because you can't use the orders.

Jeremy Richman

Laurence G. Tilley
2nd February 2008, 11:30 AM
Harlequin Games <pbm@...> wrote
>Similarly ridiculous that Emmies can turn up at your capital and Influence
>it away after being under your control for hundreds of years... :-)
Why? Trotskyite infiltrators had a lot to do with nations which turned
communist during the course of the last century. Plenty of tribes
joined the Roman Empire before the legions arrived - fear, commercial
gain and admiration all played a part. Spanish missionaries "converted"
peoples as an alternative to dealing with them via the Conquistadors.

I would like to see it rationalised though. Perhaps it is rather too
easy for ems to inf pops. I'd like to see the loy factor made more
acute - i.e. easier than it is at present to inf low loy pops, harder
than at present to inf high ones. I'd like loy to be infed by things
other than tax - death of a senior character, victories in challenge.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/