RE: [mepbmlist] Differences between TA 1650 and TA 2950 games?

[Aaruman]

That is generally true. 2950 games start out with much smaller armies. However, the
larger armies of the 1650 games generally mean that you start out with a serious
deficit, (some more than others). As for FA games, the starting armies are as small or
smaller than in 2950 games, though you do have some control over this, since you can
design your kingdom. Still, you can't buy many starting troops with the army money. (I
personally like the "design your own nation" feature of the FA games, since in either
1650 or 2950 games, some of the starting nations are MUCH weaker than others.)

Aaruman

-----Original Message-----
From: oysteint@... [mailto:oysteint@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:46 AM
To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Subject: [mepbmlist] Differences between TA 1650 and TA 2950 games?


Okie, what are the differences between 1650 and 2950 (or FA games for
that matter)? Besides the nations involved. I've been led to believe
that 1650 games are "faster", and get along quickly and as such gets
into into action at the very beginning of it. Can anyone elaborate for
me please? :)

Øystein



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[bgbrunet]

2950 starts with not only smaller armies, but also a
mangled map that have much fewer pop centers, at least
FP and neutral wise.

Everyone gets to spend a few turns developing before
the traditional move out and kill peasants.

One would assume that artifacts would mean more in
this environment, as a +750 sword means nothing against
the huge 1650 armies.......

FA is something else entirely!

>
> Øystein
>

[Pontus Gustavsson]

> 2950 starts with not only smaller armies, but also a
> mangled map that have much fewer pop centers, at least
> FP and neutral wise.

This is true, and this is the strength of the 2950 scenario. In 1650
you have great numbers of troops and the pop centres to support them
(almost). In 2950, especially in the winter, your greatest difficulty
is the economy. You simply can't just recruit as fast as you can and
send the troops over to the enemy territory to die. You have to keep
a close watch over your economy each turn. This means much smaller
armies, whihc means artifacts and mages are suddenly a great tool in
providing more firepower to your armies. And it means your pop
centres are somewhat safer in the beginning, so you can concentrate
on developing your nation the way you want. 2950 gives yoy more
economic difficulties, a "slower" start when it comes to army combat,
but much more freedom and a more important character game. In 2950
you get to create a lot more camps before you reach pop centre limit,
and therefore you can build a whole new backup area somewhere else on
the map, before your enemies put you out of the game, which is good
for vulnerable nations like the Dragon Lord. In 1650 the first few
turns can decide the game. If nation A, B and C move in on nation X,
X doesn't have a chance, unless Z comes to rescue him, but that would
open up the Z nations flank to nation D etc. No matter how good you
are, you can be in trouble if the surrounding nations don't move the
way you expect them to, and they seldom do. On the other hand, if
they do as you suspect they will, you will get the upper hand early
in the game. It's a lot like the first moves in chess, but with a
bigger element of chance. This is why I like 2950. In 2950 the player
who has the best long term strategy usually prevails, and even the
"lesser" nations have a chance of winning if you play with skill and
creativity. So if you want thousands of troops clashing together on
turn 2, choose 1650, and if you want to plan your conquest more
carefully and rely more on characters and your own ideas on nation
development, choose 2950. Players who played 1650 before 2950 often
find 2950 to be more "boring" and "slower" because they're used to
1650, while 2950 players find 1650 to be too much of everything. You
have to get rid of your enormous armies at once, because you can't
afford them, and therefore you're forced to attack or be invaded.

/Pontus Gustavsson

[Pontus Gustavsson]

> Finally concerning the pop base, ie, the maximum number of pops it is
> possible to have in each scenario. Pontus Gustavsson wrote that the pop
> base in 2950 is bigger than 1650. I am absolutely certain that this is NOT
> the case, in fact I believe the reverse to be true: the pop base in 1650 is
> bigger than 2950.

Please check my mail again. I wrote the mail in the middle of the
night, true, but I'm pretty sure I did not say the pop centre base is
bigger in 2950!!! Quite the opposite I would say, which was one of
the main messages in my mail. So next time you quote me by name and
disagree with what I write, please check that you really do. Or
include my original text so people can check it themselves! What
could have been misunderstood is the sentence about the pop centre
limit, and I'm sorry if my lousy english is the cause of this. I
meant to say that in 2950 all nations start out with MUCH
fewer/lesser pop centres, which usually gives you more time to post
more camps, because the number of camps you can put down before you
reach the limit is higher. Also contributing is the fact that many
2950 nations are extremely poor and choose not to post with armies,
chose not to get the full number of emmies right away etc. Hope this
clarifies it.

/Pontus

> CLINT can you settle this question please?

Not much to settle I think Clint, but feel free to do!

/Pontus Gustavsson (knows the difference between 1650 and 2950...)

[Pontus Gustavsson]

Ah, sorry Richard. I think this is a misunderstanding of the
definition of the word pop centre base. In my opinion the pop centre
base of a nation is the number and level of pop centres you start out
with and has nothing to do with what I call the pop centre limit. I
don't think they've changed the program between the scenarios, so the
pop centre limit is probably fixed, which means the space between
existing pop centres and maximum nunber of pop centres is larger in
2950 than in 1650, which is what I wanted to say. Sorry about not
reading your definition of pop base.

/Pontus

> Finally concerning the pop base, ie, the maximum number of pops it is
> possible to have in each scenario. Pontus Gustavsson wrote that the pop
> base in 2950 is bigger than 1650. I am absolutely certain that this is NOT
> the case, in fact I believe the reverse to be true: the pop base in 1650 is
> bigger than 2950.
>
> CLINT can you settle this question please?
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard.
> >
> >
> > Okie, what are the differences between 1650 and 2950 (or FA games for
> > that matter)? Besides the nations involved. I've been led to believe
> > that 1650 games are "faster", and get along quickly and as such gets
> > into into action at the very beginning of it. Can anyone elaborate for
> > me please? :)
> >
> > Øystein
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> > http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> > http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>

[Richard John Devereux]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Differences between TA 1650 and TA 2950 games?


> > Finally concerning the pop base, ie, the maximum number of pops it is
> > possible to have in each scenario. Pontus Gustavsson wrote that the pop
> > base in 2950 is bigger than 1650. I am absolutely certain that this is
NOT
> > the case, in fact I believe the reverse to be true: the pop base in 1650
is
> > bigger than 2950.
>
> Please check my mail again. I wrote the mail in the middle of the
> night, true, but I'm pretty sure I did not say the pop centre base is
> bigger in 2950!!! Quite the opposite I would say, which was one of
> the main messages in my mail. So next time you quote me by name and
> disagree with what I write, please check that you really do. Or
> include my original text so people can check it themselves! What
> could have been misunderstood is the sentence about the pop centre
> limit, and I'm sorry if my lousy english is the cause of this. I
> meant to say that in 2950 all nations start out with MUCH
> fewer/lesser pop centres, which usually gives you more time to post
> more camps, because the number of camps you can put down before you
> reach the limit is higher. Also contributing is the fact that many
> 2950 nations are extremely poor and choose not to post with armies,
> chose not to get the full number of emmies right away etc. Hope this
> clarifies it.
>
> /Pontus
>
RD: Hi Pontus, I apologise if I misquoted you. Your English is excellent.
Thanks for clarifying the above.

Regards,

Richard.

[Richard John Devereux]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Differences between TA 1650 and TA 2950 games?


Ah, sorry Richard. I think this is a misunderstanding of the
definition of the word pop centre base. In my opinion the pop centre
base of a nation is the number and level of pop centres you start out
with and has nothing to do with what I call the pop centre limit. I
don't think they've changed the program between the scenarios, so the
pop centre limit is probably fixed, which means the space between
existing pop centres and maximum nunber of pop centres is larger in
2950 than in 1650, which is what I wanted to say. Sorry about not
reading your definition of pop base.

/Pontus

RD: No problem. All's well that ends well!

> Finally concerning the pop base, ie, the maximum number of pops it is
> possible to have in each scenario. Pontus Gustavsson wrote that the pop
> base in 2950 is bigger than 1650. I am absolutely certain that this is
NOT
> the case, in fact I believe the reverse to be true: the pop base in 1650
is
> bigger than 2950.
>
> CLINT can you settle this question please?
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard.
> >
> >
> > Okie, what are the differences between 1650 and 2950 (or FA games for
> > that matter)? Besides the nations involved. I've been led to believe
> > that 1650 games are "faster", and get along quickly and as such gets
> > into into action at the very beginning of it. Can anyone elaborate for
> > me please? :)
> >
> > Øystein
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> > http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> > http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>





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