New Pop Centers [Archive] - Middle Earth Play-by-Mail

lucasc68@...

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

I wanted to get peoples experiences on the following matter. In 2
different game playing as a FP, I have had the chance to burn the Ice
King camp at 3022. Both times I posted and renamed it something more
FP appropriate. In both cases the production was far short of the
production I have seen in IK setups. I have seen about 12 setups (Min)
and most productions include 400-600 Timber and 1000+ food. In both
cases, the newly renamed FP camp has just ok production 150+ Timber
600 Food.

Seeing this leeds me to 2 conclusions.

1) Each time a camp a created, new productions is generated. Thus if I
had posted on the ruin without a name, production would have been the
same at start superior levels of DS camps.

2) When a game is generated, hexes just have the products like gold,
mithril, bronze, and so on. The actual amount is not known until the
camp is generated (if it ever is). Thus when spells like reveal
production is cast, the program knows where the products are just not
how much exists.

I was always under the impresssion that when a game was generated, all
production levels (hex xxxx makes 150 bronze,300 food, and 20 mount)
and so on are now set in stone. These two Ice King replants have
changed my view of how I thought it was.

Discuss!

Lucas Cuccia

Wilson Reis

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

As the Dog Lord, i had the chance to do Lag-konzi II and Lag-konzi III .
Lag-konzi disappeared around turn 6, (low loyalty).
Lag-konzi II was made aroud turn 8 (same production)
Lag-konzi II was destroyed around turn 17 (dwarven army)
Lag-konzi III was luckily made in turn 20 (same production)

If that production change ever happens, i SURELY doesn happen if the nation who is rebuilding the
camp is the same that used to own it.
But it's very easy to test, just way for some allied camp to disappear and try to rebuild it.

Regards
Will
----- Original Message -----
From: <lucasc68@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:28 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] New Pop Centers

> I wanted to get peoples experiences on the following matter. In 2
> different game playing as a FP, I have had the chance to burn the Ice
> King camp at 3022. Both times I posted and renamed it something more
> FP appropriate. In both cases the production was far short of the
> production I have seen in IK setups. I have seen about 12 setups (Min)
> and most productions include 400-600 Timber and 1000+ food. In both
> cases, the newly renamed FP camp has just ok production 150+ Timber
> 600 Food.
>
> Seeing this leeds me to 2 conclusions.
>
> 1) Each time a camp a created, new productions is generated. Thus if I
> had posted on the ruin without a name, production would have been the
> same at start superior levels of DS camps.
>
> 2) When a game is generated, hexes just have the products like gold,
> mithril, bronze, and so on. The actual amount is not known until the
> camp is generated (if it ever is). Thus when spells like reveal
> production is cast, the program knows where the products are just not
> how much exists.
>
> I was always under the impresssion that when a game was generated, all
> production levels (hex xxxx makes 150 bronze,300 food, and 20 mount)
> and so on are now set in stone. These two Ice King replants have
> changed my view of how I thought it was.
>
> Discuss!
>
> Lucas Cuccia
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

dgarrett

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

I have seen the production change in a hex as well. The camp production
changed every time the pop center was rebuilt. Still had the same type just
varying amounts. BTW, the camp changed hands way too many times. : )

Deni
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wilson Reis" <will@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] New Pop Centers

> As the Dog Lord, i had the chance to do Lag-konzi II and Lag-konzi III .
> Lag-konzi disappeared around turn 6, (low loyalty).
> Lag-konzi II was made aroud turn 8 (same production)
> Lag-konzi II was destroyed around turn 17 (dwarven army)
> Lag-konzi III was luckily made in turn 20 (same production)
>
>
> If that production change ever happens, i SURELY doesn happen if the
nation who is rebuilding the
> camp is the same that used to own it.
> But it's very easy to test, just way for some allied camp to disappear and
try to rebuild it.
>
> Regards
> Will
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <lucasc68@...>
> To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:28 PM
> Subject: [mepbmlist] New Pop Centers
>
>
> > I wanted to get peoples experiences on the following matter. In 2
> > different game playing as a FP, I have had the chance to burn the Ice
> > King camp at 3022. Both times I posted and renamed it something more
> > FP appropriate. In both cases the production was far short of the
> > production I have seen in IK setups. I have seen about 12 setups (Min)
> > and most productions include 400-600 Timber and 1000+ food. In both
> > cases, the newly renamed FP camp has just ok production 150+ Timber
> > 600 Food.
> >
> > Seeing this leeds me to 2 conclusions.
> >
> > 1) Each time a camp a created, new productions is generated. Thus if I
> > had posted on the ruin without a name, production would have been the
> > same at start superior levels of DS camps.
> >
> > 2) When a game is generated, hexes just have the products like gold,
> > mithril, bronze, and so on. The actual amount is not known until the
> > camp is generated (if it ever is). Thus when spells like reveal
> > production is cast, the program knows where the products are just not
> > how much exists.
> >
> > I was always under the impresssion that when a game was generated, all
> > production levels (hex xxxx makes 150 bronze,300 food, and 20 mount)
> > and so on are now set in stone. These two Ice King replants have
> > changed my view of how I thought it was.
> >
> > Discuss!
> >
> > Lucas Cuccia
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> > http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Richard John Devereux

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

----- Original Message -----
From: <lucasc68@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:28 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] New Pop Centers

> I wanted to get peoples experiences on the following matter. In 2
> different game playing as a FP, I have had the chance to burn the Ice
> King camp at 3022. Both times I posted and renamed it something more
> FP appropriate. In both cases the production was far short of the
> production I have seen in IK setups. I have seen about 12 setups (Min)
> and most productions include 400-600 Timber and 1000+ food. In both
> cases, the newly renamed FP camp has just ok production 150+ Timber
> 600 Food.
>
> Seeing this leeds me to 2 conclusions.
>
> 1) Each time a camp a created, new productions is generated. Thus if I
> had posted on the ruin without a name, production would have been the
> same at start superior levels of DS camps.
>
> 2) When a game is generated, hexes just have the products like gold,
> mithril, bronze, and so on. The actual amount is not known until the
> camp is generated (if it ever is). Thus when spells like reveal
> production is cast, the program knows where the products are just not
> how much exists.
>
> I was always under the impresssion that when a game was generated, all
> production levels (hex xxxx makes 150 bronze,300 food, and 20 mount)
> and so on are now set in stone. These two Ice King replants have
> changed my view of how I thought it was.
>
> Discuss!
>
> Lucas Cuccia
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
RD: THe answer is simple - don't change the name!

Richard.

Edward A. Dimmick

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

Wilson Reis wrote:
>
> As the Dog Lord, i had the chance to do Lag-konzi II and Lag-konzi III .
> Lag-konzi disappeared around turn 6, (low loyalty).
> Lag-konzi II was made aroud turn 8 (same production)
> Lag-konzi II was destroyed around turn 17 (dwarven army)
> Lag-konzi III was luckily made in turn 20 (same production)
>
> If that production change ever happens, i SURELY doesn happen if the nation who is rebuilding the
> camp is the same that used to own it.
> But it's very easy to test, just way for some allied camp to disappear and try to rebuild it.
>
I will leave out readers with the following observation: If you ScoHex
in an empty hex which contains no pop center at all, part of your report
is the hex production levels. Discuss amongst yourselves...

-ED \1/

Fri Jun*1,*2001 5:50*am
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New Pop Centers

I wanted to get peoples experiences on the following matter. In 2 different game playing as a FP, I have had the chance to burn the Ice King camp at 3022. Both...

lucasc68@...

May*31,*2001 11:29*am



Re: New Pop Centers

As the Dog Lord, i had the chance to do Lag-konzi II and Lag-konzi III . Lag-konzi disappeared around turn 6, (low loyalty). Lag-konzi II was made aroud turn 8...

Wilson Reis
will@...

May*31,*2001 12:30*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

I think the fact that, in the other example, the Pop Center was burned to the ground may have an effect on production. You can't exactly level a region...

Draugnar
Draugnar@...

May*31,*2001 12:42*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

I have seen the production change in a hex as well. The camp production changed every time the pop center was rebuilt. Still had the same type just varying...

dgarrett
gtgsmom@...

May*31,*2001 4:05*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

.... From: <lucasc68@...> To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:28 PM Subject: [mepbmlist] New Pop Centers ... RD: THe answer is...

Richard John Devereux
devereux@...

May*31,*2001 4:40*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

.... I will leave out readers with the following observation: If you ScoHex in an empty hex which contains no pop center at all, part of your report is the hex...

Edward A. Dimmick
dukefenton@...

Jun*1,*2001 5:59*am



Re: New Pop Centers

.... ScoHex ... report ... IF those levels are set in the beginning, WHY did the same pop centre give DIFFERENT production levels during the SAME game. ... ...

ditletang@...

Jun*1,*2001 6:46*am



Re: New Pop Centers

Easy fella... It could be as simple as the season changed and reduced production (when was the last time corn grew in Winter) so it was "observed" to be...

Draugnar
Draugnar@...

Jun*1,*2001 9:59*am



Re: New Pop Centers

I would say someone forgot to make the proper climate adjustments, that it. The lie, if we may call it that way, probably was accidental :PP Will PS: When i...

Wilson Reis
will@...

Jun*1,*2001 9:21*am



Re: New Pop Centers

.... Dunno, I wasn't there. [1] I'm just giving you my own observation - a ScoHex will include production levels, which will be reflected in a camp placed in...

Edward A. Dimmick
dukefenton@...

Jun*1,*2001 11:51*am



Re: New Pop Centers

In a message dated 6/1/01 7:47:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ditletang@... writes: << Either you interjected into the middle of a conversation that you ...

TaborekEJ@...

Jun*1,*2001 11:52*am



Re: New Pop Centers

Guys, I did not want snotty talk over my initial post. To rephrase the question I asked several days ago. If a camp with a new name is posted on the site of...

lucasc68@...

Jun*2,*2001 9:40*am



Re: New Pop Centers

Just take a breather ... ;-) Generally I find it calms things down if you contact me and I can sort it out. They're just opinions. Clint ... From:...

Middle Earth PBM Games
me@...

Jun*1,*2001 12:04*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

I have posted a camp, had it deteriorate, then reposted it and the production levels were similar but not the same....

kurgan
kurgan@...

Jun*2,*2001 12:58*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

In a message dated 6/2/01 2:08:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kurgan@... writes: << I have posted a camp, had it deteriorate, then reposted it and the ...

TaborekEJ@...

Jun*4,*2001 9:59*am

ditletang@...

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Edward A. Dimmick" <dukefenton@e...> wrote:

> I will leave out readers with the following observation: If you
ScoHex
> in an empty hex which contains no pop center at all, part of your
report
> is the hex production levels. Discuss amongst yourselves...
> started in the first place, no?

IF those levels are set in the beginning,

WHY did the same pop centre give DIFFERENT production levels during
the SAME game.
> -ED \1/

Which is why, I was under the impression, this confused thread was

Either you interjected into the middle of a conversation that you
hadn't really been following (always productive....), or you are
calling the person who started this a LIAR.

Which is it?

bb for "Fair and Reasonable Discussions Everywhere"

Wilson Reis

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

I would say someone forgot to make the proper climate adjustments, that it.

The lie, if we may call it that way, probably was accidental :PP

Will
PS: When i said Lag-konzi had the same production, i mean the same production at 100%, which doesn
happen in Winter, for example.

----- Original Message -----
From: <ditletang@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 8:46 AM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: New Pop Centers

> --- In mepbmlist@y..., "Edward A. Dimmick" <dukefenton@e...> wrote:
>
> > I will leave out readers with the following observation: If you
> ScoHex
> > in an empty hex which contains no pop center at all, part of your
> report
> > is the hex production levels. Discuss amongst yourselves...
> > started in the first place, no?
>
> IF those levels are set in the beginning,
>
> WHY did the same pop centre give DIFFERENT production levels during
> the SAME game.
> > -ED \1/
>
> Which is why, I was under the impression, this confused thread was
>
>
> Either you interjected into the middle of a conversation that you
> hadn't really been following (always productive....), or you are
> calling the person who started this a LIAR.
>
> Which is it?
>
> bb for "Fair and Reasonable Discussions Everywhere"
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Edward A. Dimmick

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

ditletang@... wrote:
>
> --- In mepbmlist@y..., "Edward A. Dimmick" <dukefenton@e...> wrote:
>
> > I will leave our readers with the following observation: If you
> ScoHex
> > in an empty hex which contains no pop center at all, part of your
> report
> > is the hex production levels. Discuss amongst yourselves...
>
> IF those levels are set in the beginning,
>
> WHY did the same pop centre give DIFFERENT production levels during
> the SAME game.
>
Dunno, I wasn't there. [1] I'm just giving you my own observation - a
ScoHex will include production levels, which will be reflected in a camp
placed in that hex. They *might* change if the PC is destroyed and
rebuilt, but the point is that you *can* scout them so production is
decided in some fashion before camps are placed. Also, the rules do
seem to be different for starting pop centers, which seem to have higher
production on average than those started during the game.

> Either you interjected into the middle of a conversation that you
> hadn't really been following (always productive....), or you are
> calling the person who started this a LIAR.
>
> Which is it?
>
Not clear which of the posters you're attacking here since your
attributions are a bit skasha'd, but your hostility seems a bit
unwarranted. Different people observe different things and develop
different impressions about what the heck is going on. We're trying to
figure out by comparing notes. If you're not inclined to help, please
butt out.

-ED \1/

[1] The thought does occur that the original PC might have been larger
than a camp, or there could have been a season change - both would cause
a difference in production.

Fri Jun*1,*2001 11:41*am
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New Pop Centers

I wanted to get peoples experiences on the following matter. In 2 different game playing as a FP, I have had the chance to burn the Ice King camp at 3022. Both...

lucasc68@...

May*31,*2001 11:29*am



Re: New Pop Centers

As the Dog Lord, i had the chance to do Lag-konzi II and Lag-konzi III . Lag-konzi disappeared around turn 6, (low loyalty). Lag-konzi II was made aroud turn 8...

Wilson Reis
will@...

May*31,*2001 12:30*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

I think the fact that, in the other example, the Pop Center was burned to the ground may have an effect on production. You can't exactly level a region...

Draugnar
Draugnar@...

May*31,*2001 12:42*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

I have seen the production change in a hex as well. The camp production changed every time the pop center was rebuilt. Still had the same type just varying...

dgarrett
gtgsmom@...

May*31,*2001 4:05*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

.... From: <lucasc68@...> To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:28 PM Subject: [mepbmlist] New Pop Centers ... RD: THe answer is...

Richard John Devereux
devereux@...

May*31,*2001 4:40*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

.... I will leave out readers with the following observation: If you ScoHex in an empty hex which contains no pop center at all, part of your report is the hex...

Edward A. Dimmick
dukefenton@...

Jun*1,*2001 5:59*am



Re: New Pop Centers

.... ScoHex ... report ... IF those levels are set in the beginning, WHY did the same pop centre give DIFFERENT production levels during the SAME game. ... ...

ditletang@...

Jun*1,*2001 6:46*am



Re: New Pop Centers

Easy fella... It could be as simple as the season changed and reduced production (when was the last time corn grew in Winter) so it was "observed" to be...

Draugnar
Draugnar@...

Jun*1,*2001 9:59*am



Re: New Pop Centers

I would say someone forgot to make the proper climate adjustments, that it. The lie, if we may call it that way, probably was accidental :PP Will PS: When i...

Wilson Reis
will@...

Jun*1,*2001 9:21*am



Re: New Pop Centers

.... Dunno, I wasn't there. [1] I'm just giving you my own observation - a ScoHex will include production levels, which will be reflected in a camp placed in...

Edward A. Dimmick
dukefenton@...

Jun*1,*2001 11:51*am



Re: New Pop Centers

In a message dated 6/1/01 7:47:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ditletang@... writes: << Either you interjected into the middle of a conversation that you ...

TaborekEJ@...

Jun*1,*2001 11:52*am



Re: New Pop Centers

Guys, I did not want snotty talk over my initial post. To rephrase the question I asked several days ago. If a camp with a new name is posted on the site of...

lucasc68@...

Jun*2,*2001 9:40*am



Re: New Pop Centers

Just take a breather ... ;-) Generally I find it calms things down if you contact me and I can sort it out. They're just opinions. Clint ... From:...

Middle Earth PBM Games
me@...

Jun*1,*2001 12:04*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

I have posted a camp, had it deteriorate, then reposted it and the production levels were similar but not the same....

kurgan
kurgan@...

Jun*2,*2001 12:58*pm



Re: New Pop Centers

In a message dated 6/2/01 2:08:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kurgan@... writes: << I have posted a camp, had it deteriorate, then reposted it and the ...

TaborekEJ@...

Jun*4,*2001 9:59*am

lucasc68@...

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

Guys, I did not want snotty talk over my initial post.

To rephrase the question I asked several days ago.

If a camp with a new name is posted on the site of the ruins of a
detroyed pop center, Does the computer generate new production totals
or is production fixed ?

So far here are the 2 answers I got.

When the nation who had owned the pop center previously replace the
pop center, the production was the same as before it was destroyed.

If a scout hex is done on the same hex repeatedly, the production
levels are the same.

This would lead me to believe that production was fixed at game start.
PERIOD

The former is more of the answer I was looking for. It just seemed
strange that in 2 different games Lag-Scarra (The Ice King camp 3022
in the woods) would have substandard production when compare to other
setups I have seen. In both cases my production was about 650 food and
150 timber after reposting. I have seen 1000+foods and 500 timber
producers on IK setups.

Maybe this question should be for Clint. Was my renamed posted camp,
a)generated by the program a the moment it was posted ?
b)was Lag Scarra just a poor producer in both games ?
c)was it a bug ?

kurgan

2nd February 2008, 11:50 AM

I have posted a camp, had it deteriorate, then reposted it and the production
levels were similar but not the same.

lucasc68@... wrote:

> Guys, I did not want snotty talk over my initial post.
>
> To rephrase the question I asked several days ago.
>
> If a camp with a new name is posted on the site of the ruins of a
> detroyed pop center, Does the computer generate new production totals
> or is production fixed ?
>
> So far here are the 2 answers I got.
>
> When the nation who had owned the pop center previously replace the
> pop center, the production was the same as before it was destroyed.
>
> If a scout hex is done on the same hex repeatedly, the production
> levels are the same.
>
> This would lead me to believe that production was fixed at game start.
> PERIOD
>
> The former is more of the answer I was looking for. It just seemed
> strange that in 2 different games Lag-Scarra (The Ice King camp 3022
> in the woods) would have substandard production when compare to other
> setups I have seen. In both cases my production was about 650 food and
> 150 timber after reposting. I have seen 1000+foods and 500 timber
> producers on IK setups.
>
> Maybe this question should be for Clint. Was my renamed posted camp,
> a)generated by the program a the moment it was posted ?
> b)was Lag Scarra just a poor producer in both games ?
> c)was it a bug ?
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/