Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!

[simon.dunsterville]

Hi,

at the risk of getting cold shouldered following the recent discussion, I do have a quick question about moving with Dragons.

Once recruited do they move with my character on an 810, or do you have to move as a company on 820. Also, in order to fight with an army do I just need to move the character to the same hex as the army or do I need to join that army on an 870?

Many thanks in advance.

Simon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Richard John Devereux]

----- Original Message -----
From: "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 12:16 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!


> Hi,
>
> at the risk of getting cold shouldered following the recent discussion, I
do have a quick question about moving with Dragons.
>
> Once recruited do they move with my character on an 810, or do you have to
move as a company on 820. Also, in order to fight with an army do I just
need to move the character to the same hex as the army or do I need to join
that army on an 870?
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Simon

RD: Neither! The dragon will fly off and join one of your armies. It will
appear or your next result sheet under the army chosen as a character
travelling with the army. If you don't have any armies you don't get the
dragon. There are differences of opinion how the dragon chooses which
commander to join, maybe either the one with highest com rank, or highest
total ranks. I think there's general agreement that commanders' artifacts
do not influence the dragon's choice.

Hope that helps,

Richard.

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[Bayonet@...]

Simon, this is how it usually happens. Often emissaries placing
camps in the mountains will provide the early source of dragons. As
the Dragon Lord once upon a time (GSI Game#169?) I encountered three
dragons three turns in a row at 2809 and recruited two of them.
There was no army there.

Scott


--- In mepbmlist@y..., "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
wrote:
> Thanks for that,
>
> does that mean that a character without an army cannot recruit a
Dragon? or
> is it possible for him to do so and then the Dragon moves to the
nearest
> friendly army?
>
> Cheers in advance
>
> Simon
>

[simon.dunsterville]

Richard,

that makes a lot of sense - effectively, my character recruits the Dragon,
which then flies off to join one of my armies leaving the recruiting
character to carry on with his turn. If I understand aright, that character
gives a response as his first order and, if he hasn't been eaten, can also
give a second order, whilst the Dragon either picks his teeth with my
characters bones or moves to join one of my armies.

Thanks for the help, it'll be interesting to see which army he joins as I
have several of comparable size in the vacinity.

Cheers

Simon

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard John Devereux <devereux@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@...>
> To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 12:16 PM
> Subject: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > at the risk of getting cold shouldered following the recent discussion,
I
> do have a quick question about moving with Dragons.
> >
> > Once recruited do they move with my character on an 810, or do you have
to
> move as a company on 820. Also, in order to fight with an army do I just
> need to move the character to the same hex as the army or do I need to
join
> that army on an 870?
> >
> > Many thanks in advance.
> >
> > Simon
>
> RD: Neither! The dragon will fly off and join one of your armies. It
will
> appear or your next result sheet under the army chosen as a character
> travelling with the army. If you don't have any armies you don't get the
> dragon. There are differences of opinion how the dragon chooses which
> commander to join, maybe either the one with highest com rank, or highest
> total ranks. I think there's general agreement that commanders' artifacts
> do not influence the dragon's choice.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Richard.
>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[simon.dunsterville]

Scott,

thanks for the confirmation - on the advice of a more experienced player I
did exactly what you said (DS is my first game though I'm now in 2) and have
encountered 3 Dragons in 2 turns! This is the first I've been able to get
to and you know how it is with your first time; nervous to make a good
impression, not wanting to disappoint........ time for a lie down.

Good gaming all (5 months in and still learning)

Simon

----- Original Message -----
From: <Bayonet@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:03 AM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!

> Simon, this is how it usually happens. Often emissaries placing
> camps in the mountains will provide the early source of dragons. As
> the Dragon Lord once upon a time (GSI Game#169?) I encountered three
> dragons three turns in a row at 2809 and recruited two of them.
> There was no army there.
>
>
> Scott
>
>
> --- In mepbmlist@y..., "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for that,
> >
> > does that mean that a character without an army cannot recruit a
> Dragon? or
> > is it possible for him to do so and then the Dragon moves to the
> nearest
> > friendly army?
> >
> > Cheers in advance
> >
> > Simon
> >
>
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[pinsonneault.1@...]

I have direct evidence from several turns that skill artifacts matter,
and that dragons go to the army commander with the highest total skill
ranks including skill artifacts but excluding stealth. I've used this
with transfer artifact orders to parcel out multiple dragons to
multiple armies...I've had three running with the same nation at the
same time.

cheers,

Marc

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
wrote:
> Richard,
>
> that makes a lot of sense - effectively, my character recruits the
Dragon,
> which then flies off to join one of my armies leaving the recruiting
> character to carry on with his turn. If I understand aright, that
character
> gives a response as his first order and, if he hasn't been eaten,
can also
> give a second order, whilst the Dragon either picks his teeth with
my
> characters bones or moves to join one of my armies.
>
> Thanks for the help, it'll be interesting to see which army he joins
as I
> have several of comparable size in the vacinity.
>
> Cheers
>
> Simon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard John Devereux <devereux@l...>
> To: <mepbmlist@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
> > To: <mepbmlist@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 12:16 PM
> > Subject: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > at the risk of getting cold shouldered following the recent
discussion,
> I
> > do have a quick question about moving with Dragons.
> > >
> > > Once recruited do they move with my character on an 810, or do
you have
> to
> > move as a company on 820. Also, in order to fight with an army do
I just
> > need to move the character to the same hex as the army or do I
need to
> join
> > that army on an 870?
> > >
> > > Many thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > Simon
> >
> > RD: Neither! The dragon will fly off and join one of your armies.
It
> will
> > appear or your next result sheet under the army chosen as a
character
> > travelling with the army. If you don't have any armies you don't
get the
> > dragon. There are differences of opinion how the dragon chooses
which
> > commander to join, maybe either the one with highest com rank, or
highest
> > total ranks. I think there's general agreement that commanders'
artifacts
> > do not influence the dragon's choice.
> >
> > Hope that helps,
> >
> > Richard.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

[am1beck@...]

Simon just in case you don't know this allready.

Dragons roam certain areas of the map. Mostly in the northen part of
Misty Mountains hex xx09 to xx02. When encountered you react with
order 285 ReacEnc and write the appropiate answer (i.e MEEK if
encountering dragon Culgor etc. - see the known answers at
http://www.middleearthpbm.co.uk/main/dragons.htm).

The dragon will then teleport to one of your armies (you have to have
one to recruit dragons).
Usually they go to the army commanded (not subcommanders) by
character with most total skill ranks (and to my experience including
artifacts though people seems to disagree). Notice that sometimes
they just go whereever they want so there is a random element here
too.

Dragons lower loyalty for FP, raise it for DS and random up/down for
neutrals (also goes for Balrogs).

Example. Your DS emissary JustTesting has encountered Culgor. From
Bobbins MePbm homepage you see he will get recruited (most of the
time - also a random element) by answering MEEK i.e. "285 ReacEnc,
MEEK". Almost allways this result in you recruting him and he goes to
your army commanded by General GreatSkill with C89+Dwarwen Ring Of
Power (DRoP) for total rank of 129. He did not go to your other army
commanded by veteran HowLowCanYouGo C10/A20. GreatSkill's army sits
ontop of your popcenter called Nest, City/Citadel loyalty 65 and
recruit 500HI and move out.

Your nation messages will say something like "The loyalty was
influenced from the efforts or presence of Culgor at Nest". The
loyalty increase wary but will be something around +7 as you're a DS.
This happens between 285 and 850 order sequence and also goes for an
army on enemy popcenter (i.e. will lower/raise loyalty but after
combat - say you capture popcenter xxx the loyalty will depend on the
capturing army commanders natural command rank + the newly recruited
dragon will raise the loyalty with around 7 before you move the army
somewhere else).

Dragons are treated as characters traveling with the army. They can
be challenged (though unlikely having challenge rank 200+) and if
army is overruned they die together with rest of characters traveling
with army.

Hope this spread some light over dragons.

Cheers
Kasper Ambeck-Madsen

[simon.dunsterville]

Can I just check my understanding here? Does a Dragon always seek out your
most powerful commander or does it go to the nearest army and then choose
between army commanders?

Also, when does the Dragon move? Is it before or after 810? In other
words, could I move a commander to an army in the same turn as I recruit the
Dragon in order to entice him in?

Thanks in advance here - there seem to be more subtleties than at first
sight.

Cheers

Simon

----- Original Message -----
From: <pinsonneault.1@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:47 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!

> I have direct evidence from several turns that skill artifacts matter,
> and that dragons go to the army commander with the highest total skill
> ranks including skill artifacts but excluding stealth. I've used this
> with transfer artifact orders to parcel out multiple dragons to
> multiple armies...I've had three running with the same nation at the
> same time.
>
> cheers,
>
> Marc
>
>
> --- In mepbmlist@y..., "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
> wrote:
> > Richard,
> >
> > that makes a lot of sense - effectively, my character recruits the
> Dragon,
> > which then flies off to join one of my armies leaving the recruiting
> > character to carry on with his turn. If I understand aright, that
> character
> > gives a response as his first order and, if he hasn't been eaten,
> can also
> > give a second order, whilst the Dragon either picks his teeth with
> my
> > characters bones or moves to join one of my armies.
> >
> > Thanks for the help, it'll be interesting to see which army he joins
> as I
> > have several of comparable size in the vacinity.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Richard John Devereux <devereux@l...>
> > To: <mepbmlist@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!
> >
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
> > > To: <mepbmlist@y...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 12:16 PM
> > > Subject: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > at the risk of getting cold shouldered following the recent
> discussion,
> > I
> > > do have a quick question about moving with Dragons.
> > > >
> > > > Once recruited do they move with my character on an 810, or do
> you have
> > to
> > > move as a company on 820. Also, in order to fight with an army do
> I just
> > > need to move the character to the same hex as the army or do I
> need to
> > join
> > > that army on an 870?
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > > > Simon
> > >
> > > RD: Neither! The dragon will fly off and join one of your armies.
> It
> > will
> > > appear or your next result sheet under the army chosen as a
> character
> > > travelling with the army. If you don't have any armies you don't
> get the
> > > dragon. There are differences of opinion how the dragon chooses
> which
> > > commander to join, maybe either the one with highest com rank, or
> highest
> > > total ranks. I think there's general agreement that commanders'
> artifacts
> > > do not influence the dragon's choice.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps,
> > >
> > > Richard.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[am1beck@...]

Distance is not an issue - total skill rank and then some randomness
is.

Kasper
--- In mepbmlist@y..., "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
wrote:
> Can I just check my understanding here? Does a Dragon always seek
out your
> most powerful commander or does it go to the nearest army and then
choose
> between army commanders?
>
> Also, when does the Dragon move? Is it before or after 810? In
other
> words, could I move a commander to an army in the same turn as I
recruit the
> Dragon in order to entice him in?
>
> Thanks in advance here - there seem to be more subtleties than at
first
> sight.
>
> Cheers
>
> Simon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pinsonneault.1@o...>
> To: <mepbmlist@y...>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:47 PM
> Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!
>
>
> > I have direct evidence from several turns that skill artifacts
matter,
> > and that dragons go to the army commander with the highest total
skill
> > ranks including skill artifacts but excluding stealth. I've used
this
> > with transfer artifact orders to parcel out multiple dragons to
> > multiple armies...I've had three running with the same nation at
the
> > same time.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > --- In mepbmlist@y..., "simon.dunsterville"
<simon.dunsterville@n...>
> > wrote:
> > > Richard,
> > >
> > > that makes a lot of sense - effectively, my character recruits
the
> > Dragon,
> > > which then flies off to join one of my armies leaving the
recruiting
> > > character to carry on with his turn. If I understand aright,
that
> > character
> > > gives a response as his first order and, if he hasn't been
eaten,
> > can also
> > > give a second order, whilst the Dragon either picks his teeth
with
> > my
> > > characters bones or moves to join one of my armies.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the help, it'll be interesting to see which army he
joins
> > as I
> > > have several of comparable size in the vacinity.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Richard John Devereux <devereux@l...>
> > > To: <mepbmlist@y...>
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:56 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them,
honest!
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "simon.dunsterville" <simon.dunsterville@n...>
> > > > To: <mepbmlist@y...>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 12:16 PM
> > > > Subject: [mepbmlist] Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > at the risk of getting cold shouldered following the recent
> > discussion,
> > > I
> > > > do have a quick question about moving with Dragons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Once recruited do they move with my character on an 810, or
do
> > you have
> > > to
> > > > move as a company on 820. Also, in order to fight with an
army do
> > I just
> > > > need to move the character to the same hex as the army or do I
> > need to
> > > join
> > > > that army on an 870?
> > > > >
> > > > > Many thanks in advance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Simon
> > > >
> > > > RD: Neither! The dragon will fly off and join one of your
armies.
> > It
> > > will
> > > > appear or your next result sheet under the army chosen as a
> > character
> > > > travelling with the army. If you don't have any armies you
don't
> > get the
> > > > dragon. There are differences of opinion how the dragon
chooses
> > which
> > > > commander to join, maybe either the one with highest com
rank, or
> > highest
> > > > total ranks. I think there's general agreement that
commanders'
> > artifacts
> > > > do not influence the dragon's choice.
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helps,
> > > >
> > > > Richard.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > > > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> > To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> > Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >

[simon.dunsterville]

Kaspar,

many thanks for that - it pulls together much of what has been said and
answers some questions I hadn't thought of!

Here's hoping I don't end up as part of a new pile of Dragon poo.

Cheers

Simon

----- Original Message -----
From: <am1beck@...>
To: <mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 4:08 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Dragons - not fighting with them, honest!

> Simon just in case you don't know this allready.
>
> Dragons roam certain areas of the map. Mostly in the northen part of
> Misty Mountains hex xx09 to xx02. When encountered you react with
> order 285 ReacEnc and write the appropiate answer (i.e MEEK if
> encountering dragon Culgor etc. - see the known answers at
> http://www.middleearthpbm.co.uk/main/dragons.htm).
>
> The dragon will then teleport to one of your armies (you have to have
> one to recruit dragons).
> Usually they go to the army commanded (not subcommanders) by
> character with most total skill ranks (and to my experience including
> artifacts though people seems to disagree). Notice that sometimes
> they just go whereever they want so there is a random element here
> too.
>
> Dragons lower loyalty for FP, raise it for DS and random up/down for
> neutrals (also goes for Balrogs).
>
> Example. Your DS emissary JustTesting has encountered Culgor. From
> Bobbins MePbm homepage you see he will get recruited (most of the
> time - also a random element) by answering MEEK i.e. "285 ReacEnc,
> MEEK". Almost allways this result in you recruting him and he goes to
> your army commanded by General GreatSkill with C89+Dwarwen Ring Of
> Power (DRoP) for total rank of 129. He did not go to your other army
> commanded by veteran HowLowCanYouGo C10/A20. GreatSkill's army sits
> ontop of your popcenter called Nest, City/Citadel loyalty 65 and
> recruit 500HI and move out.
>
> Your nation messages will say something like "The loyalty was
> influenced from the efforts or presence of Culgor at Nest". The
> loyalty increase wary but will be something around +7 as you're a DS.
> This happens between 285 and 850 order sequence and also goes for an
> army on enemy popcenter (i.e. will lower/raise loyalty but after
> combat - say you capture popcenter xxx the loyalty will depend on the
> capturing army commanders natural command rank + the newly recruited
> dragon will raise the loyalty with around 7 before you move the army
> somewhere else).
>
> Dragons are treated as characters traveling with the army. They can
> be challenged (though unlikely having challenge rank 200+) and if
> army is overruned they die together with rest of characters traveling
> with army.
>
> Hope this spread some light over dragons.
>
> Cheers
> Kasper Ambeck-Madsen
>
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>