Separate forum for specific game discussions?

[darrell]

Personally, I've always wanted to see the specific game discussions go into a section of their own, and have the general game-related posts (not game-specific) in another section. It just seems to me like there are some pretty good discussions going on and then when turns start coming out, they are all pushed out of sight by all of the "game specific" posts.

So what I'm proposing would be to make 2 sections, so that instead of having just a "Middle Earth Play-by-Mail" section, there'd be a "General MEPBM Discussion" section and "Games in Progress" section.

I am not sure how well this sits with Clint, Sam, et al. but if there is support for something like this from the community then I'll bounce it off of them before I do anything drastic. ;)

[Player]

341 views and 53 votes. What are people afraid of?

[darrell]

Hey, it's a better turnout than the vote for mayor where I live. :)

[klub]

Brad, I guess people come back to see how the vote is progressing?

Paul

[vandal]

Hey I come back to check the voting

Vandal

[murmur]

Another addition might be a separate area for GM announcements? Game GM`s can post game filling updates/late turn anouncements/holidays/whatever here. QUicker to find if you`re looking to join a new game or for some other information. I see you have your moderator announcement section laid out like that. What do you think?

david

[murmur]

I am stupid!
i came up with that revelation of an idea then noticed you`d already done it!!!! Maybe your are just too clever for your own good.
Great idea btw. wish i`d thought of it...

;-)

[svenmoravec]

Those of you that dont like this idea, let us know why.

[Clint]

I am not sure it would particularly help. If we had a bigger active group on this list (and I don't splitting things would help increase that) then it might be worth it - but otherwise I just work my way down (as a player) through the titles for items of interest to me. If anything it might stop people just glancing at "interesting" items.. . :-)

Note: I don't feel particularly strongly about this - your call Darrell.

Clint (player and GM)

[Player]

I'd prefer a simple forum. Instead of having to go to 2 places.

[herman]

I agree,
while splitting would make things a little quicker for those looking for their specific game/games it would stop a lot of people commenting on the "Article" pieces if they are off on their own board. I don't think there is enough traffic on the board to warrant splitting it yet.

Regards Herman

[klub]

I would much prefer to split the forum for the reasons you outline Darrell.

Since my visits are limited in the frequency and duration, the small number of specific games I am interested in can quickly be relegated to page 2 or 3. I also like to check what interesting discussions are in progress on game play, mechanics, riddles etc. and it is common enough for these to drop from page 1 and remain inactive. Separating game specific threads into one forum would help to keep these visible on page 1 for longer.

I guess people who visit the forum several times a day would prefer to keep just one forum, while others who visit less regularly and for shorter periods may prefer the split.

Paul

[Player]

Another addition might be a separate area for GM announcements?

That was a good idea, but unfortunatley, it has been sabotaged. Is there anyway that the Admin area can be set up so only Administrators can post/reply there?

Brad

[darrell]

Originally posted by Player
That was a good idea, but unfortunatley, it has been sabotaged. Is there anyway that the Admin area can be set up so only Administrators can post/reply there?

Brad

My orginal idea was to allow replies in that forum, although only admins could start new threads. Perhaps it is better to only allow admins to post anything at all in that forum...so I changed the permissions. Of course, it is still viewable by anyone, and if anyone has comments, they could always start a new thread in the main forum.

[Sc0rp10]

3 to 1 in favour.... how long are you keeping this vote going?

[vandal]

How about as long as it takes to get a change of vote?

Vandal

[darrell]

Well, this poll helps illustrate the very issue that I was hoping to solve. This poll was posted at the end of May 2003, but fully one-third of the votes have come in the last 10 days. Once the poll made its way off of the front page, it faded into obscurity and nobody voted on it. When I added the new optional front page, which has a feature that shows the ongoing results of the most recent poll, more votes started coming in because it was more "visible."

Also, while the "pro-split" people outnumber the "anti-split" people roughly 3-to-1, the "I-don't-care-or-didn't-vote" people outnumber the "pro-split" people 10-to1. I suppose the real problem is that trying to extract any kind of scientific information from a poll here is an exercise in futility. I plan to do more polls more often, but they won't be as "serious" as this on is/was, and they certainly won't be "scientific", but purely for entertainment value.

I think the real question to determine whether or not the forum should be split would be: When a visitor comes to the forums, are they looking for a game-specific thread to shares taunts, jabs, and try to contact neutral nations? Or do visitors come to the forum looking for information about the game?

If most visitors come to the forum seeking a post about the games that they are involved in so they can taunt their enemies, contact neutrals, etc., then it's clear (at least to me) that the forum should NOT be split.

If, on the other hand, most visitors to this forum are in search of information about the game in general, then it seems like a natural choice to move "games in progress" threads to their own forum to make it easier to find posts about game mechanics and strategies, etc.

Even with the results of this poll being very clear, the answers to the above questions are not clear at all, at least not yet. That's why this poll has been around so long and I haven't taken any action even though the votes seem to indicate quite a majority in favor of splitting the forums.

Anyway, I'll put up another poll soon, and I'll try to make sure it is more entertaining than this one. :D

[Sc0rp10]

Why bother with a poll if you aren't going to go with the vote? :confused:

Not sure I understood the 10-1 analogy... most democratic processes go with if you don't vote, you live with the consequence... or start a revolution.

Surely, for those not voting, for whatever reason, you can just as easily say they agree with the majority decision, as say they disagree.

[Player]

The problem with splitting the forum is that those of us who do not want it split will suffer.

For those who want it split because they can find "this" "there" and "that" "somewhere else", well, we should all recognize how threads get taken off on tangents. Looking at the Admin forum and it's quite obvious how entire forums will be taken off on tangents. I fear game mechanics questions on the Game Specific forum and in-game taunts on the General Non-Game Forum. When that happens, we'll have to have 2 polls, one of each forum, asking if we want it back the way it was....

Brad

[vandal]

Sorry but if things worked on the basis the minority would suffer if we took this course of action, nothing would ever get done.

There may be many other good reasons not to do something but this is not one of them.

Of course those who wish to follow the minority rule doctrine are free to join up and fight me in a game for the future of?

Vandal

[herman]

Two tried and true sayings come to mind.

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid.

If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

Regards Herman :)

[vandal]

Do we sink so low as to resort to petty insults!

Tut tut now can you do no better?

Is this a forum for debate or you have another dance in mind.

Vandal

[herman]

I don't know what you are prattling on about, there is no insult in my post.

KISS is a common saying here in Australia and it means exactly what it says. Keep it simple stupid. In other words don't make it any more complicated than it has to be. The stupid was not directed at anyone, it is part of the saying. It means to point out that it is stupid to make things more complicated than need be.

Lighten up. ;)

Regards Herman

[Arthedain73]

Vandal: Herman is right, the KISS business is an Australian amorphism. American GIs picked it up during WW II and it is now part of the U.S. Army's generally-accepted-jargon. Something like make it "user friendly'. He intended no insult, but you have revealed a thin skin. Someone might use that agsnst you.

[vandal]

I happen to be English and as far as I am aware calling someone stupid in any languauge is an insult, though I do of course stand to be corrected.

Of course in character, as in game 9, I do seem to be a dress wearing tranny and a few other things besides but thats fine as its all about the character and not me.

Sorry but referring to me, myself crosses the line for me, but of course thats only my view of course.

If we are now saying its open season fine with me, ill dance any dance and if someone wants to try and use something well thats up to them.

As long as they are on the other side more fool them, for my memory is long and my arm longer

Vandal

[vandal]

But Herman the simple fact is having offended me there is no going back and your card is marked with me.

I do not remember writing anything about changing the forum only that minorities do not rule.

Since one is not advocating a change, the conception behind your reply is lost on me.

Vandal

[Player]

Vandal,

The whole world knows K.I.S.S. How does Herman deserve being so marked? He may as well have said G'Day. Take a humility pill.

"Policeman" Player
ps. mark away :rolleyes:

[vandal]

I dont, thus I assume your assumtion must be incorrect need I say anymore about assumption?

If you feel the need to be marked you are free to do it yourself, I see no reason to bother myself with such, since being incorrect is not, as far as I know, something to get to worked up about.

Vandal

[Player]

Originally posted by vandal
Sorry but if things worked on the basis the minority would suffer if we took this course of action, nothing would ever get done.

You didn't read my whole message, otherwise you would have either realized this is not what I said, or debated my presumptions (that's what they were). I said that right away, splitting the forum would annoy the "minority". Then I went on to detail how the majority would soon discover (much like American "democracy"...) that they got what they voted for...but it wasn't what they thought it would be...

[vandal]

I have reread your mesaage but this does not change the fact those who do not want to change are a minority.

Unless this is South America where the vote does not matter, simple facts do not change.

I like to think, as pehaps to one or two other nations, we still have some freedm and the votes are not all rigged.

Those to who you refer remain those who do not wish change and are therefore are as described by myself.

Since I am not arguing about the rights and wrongs of the matter, the points you raise have no interest to me.

The only point of interest are the bottom line and where the votes lie.

And you are still not marked, you will still have to do it yourself

Vandal

[Sc0rp10]

I agree with Vandal... reading about KISS without actually saying you weren't refering to him as stupid actually makes you look like you were calling him stupid.

Try and read your post before you submit in future... emails get taken at the word... not what the intent was when written.

I also agree with Vandal about the minority bit... but also feel that the minority do have a part to play in any discussion... use the forum to sway people to your point of view.

However, back to my original gripe... whats the point of asking for a vote on something, seeing the results and then saying, there are more people who didn't vote than voted so lets leave it as is.

49 out of 73 voting for the change is a pretty good vote for change... how many people are registered on this site??? I reckon you have a pretty good sample size here.

Sc0rp10

[herman]

That's why changing the constitution of anything is so hard, you usually need 75% or more of all eligible voters, not 75% of the vote actually made.

As for my KISS statement, the saying is KISS, (Keep it simple stupid.) the stupid is part of the saying so it applies every time it is used. If the saying had been KIS (Keep it simple) and I had added stupid then I would have been in the wrong and could be castigated by Vandal. He should not be complaining about this saying unless English is not his first language, which would then account for some of his confusion.

Regards Herman (Aussie, Aussie Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi!) :D

[darrell]

Originally posted by Player
I fear game mechanics questions on the Game Specific forum and in-game taunts on the General Non-Game Forum.
Brad

That's what moderators are for, to move posts that are in the wrong forum. Of course, that's just me at the moment...

Originally posted by herman
KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid.

Would this forum be simpler if all of the "Library" posts were in the main forum? Does it make information harder to find because it's in "The Library" and not in the main forum? Personally, I think that what I am proposing is extremely simple, and unless you're bookmarking a forum directly, then I can't possibly see how splitting forums makes anything more difficult. But that's just me, and I'm used to forums that are split into more like 15-20 different sections, so splitting from one to two seems trivial to me.

Oh, and I have a very keen grasp of the KISS principle after several years in the U.S. Army. ;)

Originally posted by herman
If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

Here is where we must disagree. I proposed the change because I do think it's "broken."

Originally posted by Player
Looking at the Admin forum and it's quite obvious how entire forums will be taken off on tangents.

I'm not sure I understand this. The whole point of the Announcement forum would be so that things like the Front Sheets could be seen and not pushed off of the front page in a day or two. Previously, if I was interested in getting into a new game, I had two real options: First, I could go to the Yahoo! list and go through the archives until I found the most recent frontsheet, or I could contact MEGames directly and ask. There was no way to quickly see "at a glance" what games were filling. That's what I was mainly trying to accomplish with the Announcement forum. It also works out that the Announcement forum is what's used to "fill" the page at http://forums.halo5.net, which I hope is a convenience for at least a few people, but isn't at all a requirement.

[Arthedain73]

Armored Cav, hoorha!

[vandal]

I should point out my wife is a Kiwi and I have just reurned from 4 months in New Zealand.

Whilst I realise kKWIS regard those from Oz as somewhat beneath them, I still have not heard the phrase kiss in those 4 months in far shores.

I am aware of several terms that mean nothing to me but I am told are not terms of endearment, thus would not deem to use them.

I am still at a loss as to understand why I should understand American or Australian slang, jargon or any other odd phrases they may have, perhaps you can enlighten me.

I am sure if I refered to items such as Jam Jars the average person in the USA has no idea this mean a car.

I think the only item here is whether you intended it or not you have caused offence, anything else does not matter, arguement reasoned or otherwise will not work in such situations.

As regards the forum, I dont see it requiring 75% of the population to vote in a National Leader and indeed I do believe the Minority won in the good old USA the last time.

Did not see Bush turning it down as he did not get the most votes, so if its good enough for them, this vote is good enough for me, even should I vote against it.

I think its called losing with dignity.

Vandal

[darrell]

Well, to be honest, the reason I've been "ignoring" the poll results lie primarily with the fact that Clint doesn't think it's a good move at this time. Or at least that's how I interpret what he's said. I'm quite honored that he (and MEGames as a whole) allows to me to provide this forum at all, so his opinions hold more weight than everyone else. Since he disagrees with me on the "splitting the forum" issue, I'm inclined to see things his way.

And also, my apologies if this issue seems to be getting out of hand, as that was never my intent. But then again, we all know what the road to hell is paved with. :D

[herman]

[i]

As regards the forum, I dont see it requiring 75% of the population to vote in a National Leader and indeed I do believe the Minority won in the good old USA the last time.

Did not see Bush turning it down as he did not get the most votes, so if its good enough for them, this vote is good enough for me, even should I vote against it.



Vandal [/B]


Seems Mr Vandal has a knack of twisting things to suit his argument. I was talking about changing constitutions he talks about electing leaders.
You are right Bush didn't get the most votes, he won the most States.(Took a Lawyer to help him but them’s the rules over there)
J Howard in Australia also didn't get the most votes but his party won the majority of the electorates.
The final point is this is a poll not a vote, Darrell was just testing the waters.

Regards Herman (Beware I am a marked man!) :p

[Kitirat]

This is a very common saying in the U.S. it was not (IMO) and generally is not said as a comment on ones intellect.

Regarding polls, I think it is fine as it is. libary info in a seperate forum is great, and right now this forum is acting as the "game taunt/meet your neutrals" forum...

[vandal]

Pray tell where in the UK does it require a 75% vote to change the constituition.

New Zealand just did it on a a 51 or 51% vote to ammend theres.

The same applies in the UK, though I am sure you could find somewere it requires more.

This is a game and not the bill or rights and who died made you God and let you decide that we needed anything more than a 51% vote?

Of course the 1% being God who runs all games and somehow ignores any voting should he so desire.

On the Subject of KISS I repeat I am not American and do not seek to impose my own jargon on others without explaination.

I do believe such actions have led to one or two wars for real which we could all debate I am sure.

However we are diverting from the main point which is of course the vote and there is no point in discussing anyhthng else as I have made my point on the dealing to date and my mind is set.

And I still say 67% wins hands down for me.
Vandal

[Player]

Originally posted by darrell
Does it make information harder to find because it's in "The Library" and not in the main forum?

Yes, actually. As a frequent visitor, I set my settings to only show threads active for a certain number of days. Until I set it to "from the beginning" or whatever it's called, all the Library stuff simply didn't show up for me. Pain.

Player
Looking at the Admin forum and it's quite obvious how entire forums will be taken off on tangents.

darrells reply
I'm not sure I understand this.

I thought you did...that's why you made it Admin only, no?



darrell
The whole point of the Announcement forum would be so that things like the Front Sheets could be seen and not pushed off of the front page in a day or two. Previously, if I was interested in getting into a new game, I had two real options: First, I could go to the Yahoo! list and go through the archives until I found the most recent frontsheet, or I could contact MEGames directly and ask. There was no way to quickly see "at a glance" what games were filling.

Excellent idea. Delete the Permanent "Welcome to the New Forum" after putting whatever relevant information on the other permanent "Help" thread (not sure if there's any there, except Sam's welcome...?) and have a Games Filling thread with Admin-Only rights Permanent at the top of this forum... Every time this information gets changed, it can simply be "Editted" on the same post, the new Edit Date will show up and the icon will show Yellow the next time we all log in. Always on top, always up to date, same old forum without having to surf and search.


darrell
It also works out that the Announcement forum is what's used to "fill" the page at http://forums.halo5.net, which I hope is a convenience for at least a few people, but isn't at all a requirement.

That's a seperate website...how do you get there from halo5.net/meforums....? I see how you go the other way, though, but personally prefer simply going to the forum itself - easier to see/read the active threads, etc, if for no other reason than the font size.

All in all, though, accept my humble opinion as such and take it as appreciation for your good work, whether we're in agreement or not, as I recognize who's efforts have made it possible for me to prattle on so!

Brad

[herman]

Vandal,
now you are just making things up. New Zealand doesn't have a writen constitution so they can't vote to change it.
What particular part of the English constitution could be changed with a vote of 51%. I would be interested to know.

Regards Herman

[iandoyle2002]

Hello All,

Two things,

Firstly, I am a Brit, and I have heard of KISS before. It is also used in the British military and the ‘Stupid’ part of the acronym refers to the content of the lesson, not as an adjective describing the student.

Secondly, the Welsh Assembly, the body governing the Principality of Wales, was created in 1999 based on a 51% majority of a vote comprising only 49% of those eligible to vote. So that’s 25% of the population voting ‘YES’ a little less voting ‘NO’ and the rest of them not giving a damn one way or the other. The vote took place because the 20% Welsh-speaking minority of the Principality were the loudest in voicing their objections at the destruction of their culture and heritage resulting from direct rule from Westminster in London.

Result, a new constitution – ta ra!!! Democracy in action.

Ian

[darrell]

Originally posted by Player
As a frequent visitor, I set my settings to only show threads active for a certain number of days. Until I set it to "from the beginning" or whatever it's called, all the Library stuff simply didn't show up for me. Pain.

Point taken, although the Library is set to show posts "from the beginning" by default and I think most people don't change that setting. Of course I could be wrong on that.

Delete the Permanent "Welcome to the New Forum" after putting whatever relevant information on the other permanent "Help" thread and have a Games Filling thread with Admin-Only rights Permanent at the top of this forum ... Always on top, always up to date, same old forum without having to surf and search.

Good idea, I will do this.


That's a seperate website...how do you get there from halo5.net/meforums....?

There's a link at the bottom of every page that says "Home Page" which takes you there. Personally, I bookmark http://forums.halo5.net and click on "View new posts" to see the latest threads.

[vandal]

Not all nations have a constitution but of course does that mean they are Banana Republics?

Please clarify what law in the UK may not be changed by its the current powers in office, that do not require a majority vote to be elcted.

Minorities can win the first past the post system here and dont require any other mandate to change our Laws.

Enough said since my interest revolves around those things that effect me.

You will note the Privy Council no longer applies in New Zealand and a fundamental change of its Legal Powers has just happened on a vote with was it one or two majority?

sShould the Supreme Court in the States be disbanded I am sure there would be more of a fuss but there you go.

New Zelealand still has something running it, may not be a constitution but it just changed.

Now you still think I am making it up or you want to give me gospel and verse on how you know more about the UK than I do.

Vandal

[herman]

Changing a law is dramatically different to changing the constitution. A law is enacted in the Wesminster system by a majority vote in both houses and is then passed into law by Her Majesty Mrs Queen. To change the constitution (the covenents by which the laws must conform) requires (and I have never seen one less either in sporting clubs or government bodies) a 2/3 majority of all eligable voters.(who is responsible for voting and how will depend on what is in the constitution itself) This is why it is so hard to change a constitution. Getting that 2/3 of the total elegable vote to get the change over the line. Amending a constitution is usually a slightly different process again.

Regards Herman :)

[darrell]

This poll, and this thread, clearly have nothing more to add to this forum, so I'm going to lock it and let it die the slow death of so many other posts since it appears to be degenerating into nothing more than a flame-farm.