Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth

[Ovatha Easterling]

So, Marc, do you view this as a leadership issue? Is it futile to attempt
to identify and predict this nuance of human behavior?

>From: "marc_pinsonneault" <pinsonneault.1@...>
>Reply-To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth
>Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 02:53
>
>Individual drops are a different matter, and there are a million
>reasons why they could happen. Conflict with other team members is
>the top reason, followed closely by being part of a chaotic or badly
>organized group. It is quite rare, at least in the games I've been
>in. to have individuals quit because they think they're losing.
>
>cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>
>
>

[Ovatha Easterling]

Like Clint, I have seen the Free fight back from this situation. In game
302 the mentioned four NG and SG cities were captured but the Free still
won.

>From: Middle Earth PBM Games <me@...>
>Reply-To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth
>Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 16:53:33 +0100
>
>
> >
> >I have seen free teams bounce back when they lose the Sea of Rhun, or
> >when they have lost parts of gondorland or mirkwood. I have never
> >seen a free team bounce back when mirkwood or gondorland is completely
> >conquered by the dark side.
>
>** Game 16 was one where I have personal experience of this occurring.
>
> >Individual drops are a different matter, and there are a million
> >reasons why they could happen. Conflict with other team members is
> >the top reason, followed closely by being part of a chaotic or badly
> >organized group. It is quite rare, at least in the games I've been
> >in. to have individuals quit because they think they're losing.
>
>
>** It all depends on the player's individual style of playing. Some like
>to stick it out and wear the opposition out or try for a glorious win
>attempt. Others prefer to give it as soon as the flag is dropped for game
>start. Getting it right is hard though and generally takes an experienced
>player with an overall grasp of the team situation and the opposition's
>position to get that call right.
>
>Clint
>

[Jeffery A. Dobberpuhl]

Myth.

If the 1R drops, it goes randomly into one of seven hexes: The hex it was
dropped or one of the adjoining.

HOWEVER, unless you know it is there (i.e. with a Locate) your chance of
grabbing it is nearly nil.

Jeffery A. Dobberpuhl

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurence G. Tilley [mailto:laurence@...]
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 3:20 AM
> To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth
>
>
> At 08:32 09/09/2002, Richard Farrer wrote:
> >I agree that in general, the FP have clearly lost when they are in this
> >bad a position. However, in game 71, recently finished, the Free were
> >down to the Noldor, Sindar & Dwarves (and the last two went out quite
> >quickly as well) and continued playing. Why? The Noldor went on a One
> >Ring hunt. They found it and got it half way across the map before
> >dropping it. Yes,it did cost the DS, 14 of them at that point, a lot of
> >money each turn but I can hardly say that the Noldor were playing on for
> >that reason alone. I think that this is the *only* reason to continue
> >playing in this sort of situation.
>
> I've heard it said that once the One Ring is dropped, it cannot be picked
> up for another 12 turns. What do the wise folk here say, fact or
> myth? If
> it's true, the mechanism must serve the game companies very well.
>
>
> Laurence G. Tilley
>
> http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
> To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
> Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

[Ovatha Easterling]

Game 302 was reported in some detail and I believe it is on the Bobbins
list, if that is any help. What was NOT mentioned was that the first SG
player was one of the easily discouraged/quitter types I started this thread
about. Fortunately, he dropped in the early game and was replaced by the
father of one of the FP. The father was a first game newbie but was a
former combat vet. After facing real bullets he was not shaken by fantasy
ones.

>From: "marc_pinsonneault" <pinsonneault.1@...>
>Reply-To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth
>Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:11:51 -0000
>
>--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Ovatha Easterling" <ovatha88@h...> wrote:
> > Like Clint, I have seen the Free fight back from this situation. In
>game
> > 302 the mentioned four NG and SG cities were captured but the Free
>still
> > won.
>
>Rules are made to be broken, I guess :)
>What did the rest of the board look like? Was the gondor situation a
>local problem, or had the servants been ahead on all fronts?
>(Games with a lot of drops are certainly different - the closest and
>hardest fought game I ever was in involved only 4 starting freeps who
>were ever part of the team and no SGondor/Sinda/Dwarf players EVER.
>In that case we did lose most of NG, but we colonized SG and recovered.)
>
>Marc
>
> >
> >
> > >From: Middle Earth PBM Games <me@M...>
> > >Reply-To: mepbmlist@y...
> > >To: mepbmlist@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth
> > >Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 16:53:33 +0100
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I have seen free teams bounce back when they lose the Sea of Rhun, or
> > > >when they have lost parts of gondorland or mirkwood. I have never
> > > >seen a free team bounce back when mirkwood or gondorland is
>completely
> > > >conquered by the dark side.
> > >
> > >** Game 16 was one where I have personal experience of this occurring.
> > >
> > > >Individual drops are a different matter, and there are a million
> > > >reasons why they could happen. Conflict with other team members is
> > > >the top reason, followed closely by being part of a chaotic or badly
> > > >organized group. It is quite rare, at least in the games I've been
> > > >in. to have individuals quit because they think they're losing.
> > >
> > >
> > >** It all depends on the player's individual style of playing.
>Some like
> > >to stick it out and wear the opposition out or try for a glorious win
> > >attempt. Others prefer to give it as soon as the flag is dropped
>for game
> > >start. Getting it right is hard though and generally takes an
>experienced
> > >player with an overall grasp of the team situation and the opposition's
> > >position to get that call right.
> > >
> > >Clint
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Ovatha Easterling]

Marc, you did not give a game number but I think I was in that one. The one
where we had isolated the tough guys, like you, but run off your 'weak
sisters'. No strategy works every time. Besides, unfair, you are a rocket
scientist while I am but a lowly snake.

>From: "marc_pinsonneault" <pinsonneault.1@...>
>Reply-To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
>Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth
>Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 16:11:51 -0000
>
>--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Ovatha Easterling" <ovatha88@h...> wrote:
> > Like Clint, I have seen the Free fight back from this situation. In
>game
> > 302 the mentioned four NG and SG cities were captured but the Free
>still
> > won.
>
>Rules are made to be broken, I guess :)
>What did the rest of the board look like? Was the gondor situation a
>local problem, or had the servants been ahead on all fronts?
>(Games with a lot of drops are certainly different - the closest and
>hardest fought game I ever was in involved only 4 starting freeps who
>were ever part of the team and no SGondor/Sinda/Dwarf players EVER.
>In that case we did lose most of NG, but we colonized SG and recovered.)
>
>Marc
>
> >
> >
> > >From: Middle Earth PBM Games <me@M...>
> > >Reply-To: mepbmlist@y...
> > >To: mepbmlist@y...
> > >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Defeatism in Middle Earth
> > >Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 16:53:33 +0100
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I have seen free teams bounce back when they lose the Sea of Rhun, or
> > > >when they have lost parts of gondorland or mirkwood. I have never
> > > >seen a free team bounce back when mirkwood or gondorland is
>completely
> > > >conquered by the dark side.
> > >
> > >** Game 16 was one where I have personal experience of this occurring.
> > >
> > > >Individual drops are a different matter, and there are a million
> > > >reasons why they could happen. Conflict with other team members is
> > > >the top reason, followed closely by being part of a chaotic or badly
> > > >organized group. It is quite rare, at least in the games I've been
> > > >in. to have individuals quit because they think they're losing.
> > >
> > >
> > >** It all depends on the player's individual style of playing.
>Some like
> > >to stick it out and wear the opposition out or try for a glorious win
> > >attempt. Others prefer to give it as soon as the flag is dropped
>for game
> > >start. Getting it right is hard though and generally takes an
>experienced
> > >player with an overall grasp of the team situation and the opposition's
> > >position to get that call right.
> > >
> > >Clint
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >