colour maps

[Richard DEVEREUX]

Very pretty. Reservations:
1) I colour-code all known pops and icons and the colours I use for Sin and Woo are different shades of green, which may be difficult to distinguish from the green used for forests.
2) Colour takes longer to download and print.
3) I shall probably now have to buy a new colour cartridge more often!

It's good to see Harle trying to make improvements, even if they are only cosmetic. However any change seems to upset somebody. Personally I applaud the effort, but I reserve judgement on whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

Clint, is it possible for Harle to give players the option of colour or b/w?

Richard.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[kingoftherill]

--- In mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com, "Richard Farrer" <richard@r...>
wrote:
> As I see it, I can download my turn and anyone else's that I want
to look at and it will take three times as long just because of the
colour map. This is not good. On the other hand, I can download all
the xmls in less than a minute and have a combined full colour map
with character information where I can look at any individual maps I
want. I would think that it would be more sensible to consider not
printing the maps in the pdfs at all to save size, rather than making
them more complex.
>
> Given that the maps are no longer vital and the character pictures
are nice but don't really add anything to the game I would like to
see the option of getting a text version of the pdfs for those of us
still not on broadband.

Richard, the map is still very much vital to me. I like to be able to
quickly look at my nation map in my pdf and don't want to lose that.
The Character pictures add personality to the game but I could stand
to lose them more than I could my nation map. For those of us who do
not know how to use the xmls or even what they are for that matter,
or who are not yet using Auto Magic or Palantir and may not want to
go to the trouble of learning all this computer stuff and want to
keep it simple I think that the extra bells and whistles should be an
option not a requirement. I have a 6 Megabyte email inbox and am
running in two different games; 140 k for every player will fill that
up pretty damn fast.

Oh and by the way you Southern Gondor slugs, you're not welcome in
Mordor and it is bad for your health to come here. Stay at home and
tend your fields until we come for you.

Brad
>
> Richard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Middle Earth PBM Games
> To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Colour Maps
>
>
> We're cutting it back again v. shortly. And improving the b& w
> printing.. Work in progress.. :-)
>
> Clint
>
> At 09:46 02/10/03, you wrote:
> >A 70k ish file is now 194k. The colour is really a costly frill
in my books.
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
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[Colin Forbes]

Hi,
Just got my first turns with colour maps and loved them. I' not too
sure yet whether there's much practical benefit, though one thing that
does spring to mind is that it's much easier tell where there's a
minor river next to a mountain hex (black next to black was never good).

The thing that stood out about middle Earth when it was first launched
was the appearance of the turns. at the time most PBM turns were
printed on dot-matix printers, and often on horrible gatefold paper at
that. MEPBM had nice fonts (since largely lost, alas), character
pictures and wonderfully easy to read graphical maps. Anyone wanting a
contrast should look at the maps you still get with Austerlitz - full
of vital info, but impossible to take in at a glance.

Sadly this initial gorgeousness has not been improved upon over the
past decade - part of the overarching stupidity of the GSI business
plan, ie get a product and live on the profits without making
continual improvements. Happily Harlequin understand the necessity of
keeping the ball of progress rolling a lot better that the game
designers. colour maps are a leap forward - or rather a leap to catch
up with other PBM games who have sadly overtaken MEPBM in the
presentation stakes over the past 10 years. Now if only those nice
fonts can be restored .. and better scans of the gorgeous original
character artwork made, then MEPBMwill once again look snappy and
contemporary.

Kudos to Harlequin - sorry, *M.E. Games Ltd*, for making what
improvements they can while being hamstrung by lazy and lacklustre
programmers at GSI.

Keep up the good work!

Colin

[Kyle Ford]

Gavin,

I have to disagree with you. Symbols are much more intuitive than pure
color. A black / white forest hex with the little tree symbols is easier to
understand then a solid green hex. Of course, a hex with symbols and color
is the best.

I'd hate to see army icons replaced with color representation. Just color
the icons / symbols.

Kyle

> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:42:54 +0200
> From: Gavinwj <gavinwj@...>
> Subject: Re: Colour Maps
>
> As for printing... Nowadays, it's actually becoming harder
> and harder to
> find a pure black and white printer. Colour printers are
> cheaper and cheaper
> all the time. Colour, properly done, contributes far more
> information than
> symbols, so the more MEPBM goes that route, the better.
>
> Gavin
>

[Colin Forbes]

"Ovatha Easterling" (whoever he is) wrote ...

> Colin. I know you are friends with the Harley staff and
> it is alright if you praise them.

Hmm, I think I object to this. Firstly You know my name but I don't
know yours. Secondly whether or not I am friends with anyone at Harly
has nothing to do with my opinions of the game. If you are suggesting
that my views *would* be affected, then you are questioning my
objectivity. Given the, um tough line I have taken in the past with
clint and the lads overcertain issues, this is an absurd suggestion.

> Also, I wished Harley was less aggressive in injecting
> itself in this game. I admit I'm jaundiced: Back in GSI game 313,
> when Harley took over, they allowed the Mordor DS to fill the
> dropped DS positions and did not tell the FP that this was being
> done.

That's not injecting themselves into a game, that's standard practice
in PBMs throughout the UK. It's just a cultural difference. Whatever
you may think, this is NOT done to maximise the profit, it's done to
make sure the games are closely fought and fun for all. In the long
run that's what brings the profit (such as it is!) :-)


> But they are not (or were not) lazy. They
> produced a product we all love and they are proud of their baby.

So producing a game over 10 years ago and doing diddly squat to it
since is not being lazy? Yes there was 2950, but that hardly required
much work and fourth age (while a good game) again addresses none of
the actual structural faults of the game.

GSI do not respond to player suggestions (even with a "thanks for your
opinion") and have done little or nothing to promote the game to a
wider audience.


> Harley is NOT given the source codes because Feild and Stassun
> know they would cut it apart and resew it into their own image.
> Yes, I'm talking Frankenstein here. A company that produces
> Automagic, Palantir, etc, ets can not resist tinkering with the
> mechanics. Let me say that would be a BAD thing.

I utterly disagree both on a personal level and for business reasons.
Personally I feel - and have felt since the game was first launched -
that there are many areas of the game which could be tinkered with.

On a business level, any game needs to adapt or die. Your preferred
model of administration only would have the game dying. A look at the
fall in numbers of GSI players over the years of their
'administration', would be revealing. I have been playing this game
for 10 years, i want to play it in another 10 years -- yet without the
'tinkering' ME Games are providing, the game will not survive. Player
numbers would fall and the game would eventually become commercially
non-profitable. As things stand GSI are taking a huge cut of the
profits and doing nothing in return. Any normal supplier of a software
product is expected to provide support and regular updates. Why does
this not apply to GSI?

Anyway, I've said my piece and I'm not going to respond to anything
else Mr Ovatha Easterlings posts unless he reveals his name.

Colin "not afraid to have his opinions linked to his real name" Forbes

[Colin Forbes]

Hi,

> Colin, I intended no offense to you personally, and please
> accept my apology for offense taken.

Apology accepted :-)

> While many of the readers of this forum know my idendity, I don't
> provide it to Harley because I do NOT want a dialogue with them in
> this forum.

Interesting in itsself. Personally I don't understand the need for
anonymity on a generally friendly forum like this, but that's your
choice, so fair enough.

> While on the subject of offense, keep in mind calling two people
> 'lazy' whom you have never met might be considered offensive--
> even if you have a thick hide.

Far be it from me to criticise the staff of a company. The
productivity or otherwise of staff is a matter for the company
concerned. However as a paying customer I believe I am entitled to
call a company lazy without being offensive.

Colin

[Colin Forbes]

"Ovatha Easterling" wrote:

> Colin, a little clarification please.

I'd be delighted to clarify and/or discuss anything you want. However
I'd rather not do this whilst you remain anonymous. If you would like
to email me directly to continue our discussion by all means do so
(clin@...).

Colin

[Colin Forbes]

Oh dear ....

> Colin, as you wish. If you are doing this at the request of a
> third person that might reflect on your objectivity.

What is this? Don't you think I am a real person with my own opinions?
I sign my own name for heaven's sake. ;-) Having apologised for
questioning my objectivity you then go and question it again. I am,
once again insulted. :-(

> You certainly were not interested in my identity when you
> published my writings in "Bree", without ID/inquiry/permission.

I don't recall the incident to which you refer, but would be happy to
print an acknowledgement. I am often sent material for Bree which is
not attributed and as a matter of course I try to track down the
authorship where possible. If this bothered you, why did you not
contact me at the time? Perhaps your regard News from Bree as another
example of Frankenstein-style 'tinkering'?

Seriously, by all means write down your views of the game and ME
Games' running of it and I shall be delighted to publish it in Bree.
Normally the editorial policy is to allow publication under a
pseudonym providing the real name is known to the editor (this is for
legal reasons). But in this case I'd be happy to make an exception -
like any editor, if there's a chance of some copy, I'll bend the rules :-)

Colin