Game 139 Neutral or already alligned?

[Er Murazor]

Well

It seems there is not enough with Cardoland and Arthedain Dwarves and Woodmen, in fact since they have managed to loose plenty of troops without any succes, Rhudaur at turn 02 has appeared with huge armies into WK Nation (more than 6000 troops). Notice he has been offered command artis, Pectoral for improving 2-3 tuns, combat weapons, coordination. We have exchanged several mailings showing comunication and interest.
Cardolan so far has lost his initial 1510 army causing just some looses onto WK armies and Arthedain has not been able to reach any population from WK. He has been blocked all the way down.
So, no free armies in WK pops at turn 2 and only one was able to do something next turn.

At this point Duns evidently will turn free as well. (Turn 02)

I'm sorry for Cardolan and Arthedain, because I believe they were enjoying my movements and it was challenging, and of course, that is really a nice way to frustrate one WK player.
Anyway I'll try to bother you somehow.

I believed this game we played 10 frees 10 dark servants and 5 neutrals, instead of 12 frees 10 dark and 3 neutrals.

Let's see what do the other Neutrals do.
By the way anyone has a Spare MT far away from Rhudaur?

Good Gaming to all.
Witch King 139
Ricard.-

[Player]

To answer the question in the subject: Neutral. The 5 Neuts have to join a side sometime, and the victim of their sudden change is almost never happy.

Rhudaur can't deny much of the above, and has no beef with the DS recruitment efforts, ably led by my *current* ;) neighbour, the Witch King. If the other neut's are hoping for a name-calling hissy fight, they won't get it. No holes in the DS to be revealed here. No holes in the FP either, mind you. As I've been quite consistent in saying to any and all who asked all game: two solid groups, nobody is proving to "deserve" a thrashing out of sheer stupidity or "ass-hole"ness to this point.

But....How far can you go where I won't find you...? ;)

Arfanbrad

[Nightsbane]

Im sure if the CL helps out you wont be able to touch him right Brad? :)

[Player]

Cloud helping out? Oh no! Oh Dear! I'd better Run! Gondor! Ohhhh GONNNNNNNdor! Can I have refuge?? The Cloud Lord is coming! The CLOUD LORD IS COMING!!!...oh wait,you're pulling my leg..! Ha ha. Good one. I'm sure you remember this from last time: You're next. ;)

Arfanbrad the Vindictive

[Nightsbane]

Except this time I actually believe you could be coming for me next...last time..well..u know :)

[Nick]

12 frees 10 ds 3 neutrals I think not. more like 11 frees 11 ds 3 newts. And that 1 ds newt is a whopper. I'ld count his nation as 2.
just wait till the dwarves come out the mountains riding there mountain goats. The problem with goat Hc is you never get any stores from defeated enemy armies as the damn goats eat it first.
Bain the mountain goat master

[Nightsbane]

wow 11 DS..your counting must be off as I havent seen any neutrals on a Free Pop yet, then again maybe you know something we dont?

[Player]

Well, he's obviously working against the FP, so if he isn't "with" the DS, then he's alone... What does a pop have to do with it? Here we go getting all technical again... Nick may leave many semantics to be desired, I shall remain eternally vigilant in my quest for objective subjectivity and a standardization of arbitrary valuations.

Cheers,

Arfanbrad, really a fun guy, honest... ;)

[Nightsbane]

Touche, the I guess I willl remain ignorant until I see our supposed collaborator in action. Besides Brad, unless the "action" is seen on our maps we would have to take your word for it...and we both know thats an exercise in futility :)

[urzahil119]

Fellas,

I must agree with the 11DS and 11FP assessment.
It does appear now that the Rhudauar are going free.

HOWEVER

It has also been made clear- with naval movements both this and last turn- that the Harad have chosen to go DS. Don't bother denying it Harad- We are not impressed- nor are we fooled.

Bob/NG


To the FK and IK -- hurry up won't you. We're gettting sick of waiting for the CL's army. Just engage us, ok??!

[Nightsbane]

Damn anyone else lose their clairvoyence helmets?? I guess its REAL clear what the Harad did...umm ok whatever, since we all see naval movements on our maps..but hey acuse the Harad, make him defensive and chose us anyways..doesnt hurt us..

Must admit its funny you calling for the FK and IK to show some backbone when you tuck tail and run from Ithil..paranoid???

[nanook]

Is someone out there exchanging more notes than I am with other neutrals? Ok, Brad and Dave maybe, but still, I didn't know who you meant by "1 DS neut," until the end of the thread.

Scott posts here occasionally, so I'm sure he'll speak up, but if he's working for the DS, he's keeping secrets I never suspected.

Those naval moves are common mistakes -- has no one ever seen SG and Harad block each other at 2629 on T1? Classic. Dave (SG Dave) didn't bother to write in advance, so what did he expect? Yes, the Harad can avoid that clash with properly written Hold moves, but so can SG.

So on T2, Harad tried to move to 2730 and SG tried to move upriver... and guess what?

Classic. Predictable. Avoidable. But not Subversive.



Back to more pressing issues,

Originally posted by Player
If the other neut's are hoping for a name-calling hissy fight, they won't get it

Pretty please?



The Neutral Corsairs
don't make me drool

[urzahil119]

So then,

On the FIRST turn - we are told Harad accidently bumped into the SG navies b/c he didn't know SG's intentions.

On the SECOND turn-- what's the story here? After the first turn he CERTAINLY new SG's intentions to come up the river. In addition, it was not only that ONE harad navy that "accidently" bumped into SG-- but TWO.

I've heard enough. I've heard that the Harad player is experienced, and any EXPERIENCED palyer who WANTED to avoid SG's navy (either turn one -or certainly turn two) would have made the appropriate arrangements. Conclusion -- Harad did not want to avoid tying up SG's navy.

Experience has shown me that true neutrals wish to avoid misunderstandings as much as the alliances do.

Whatever you are selling, I'm not buying any of it.

Bob/NG

[urzahil119]

To the Esteemed LR,

You may scoff at Ithil- but I beleive it is still mine.

You may claim I am running - but your western cavalry is still yet to be seen.

You may speak for the FK and IK - but, unless you are also paying to run those positions -- don't you think they can (and should) speak for themselves?


See you around,
Bob/NG

[Nightsbane]

I have better things to do with my Calv, besides I figured you tuck tail and run like a coward. Amd good for you on turn 2 owning Ithil still WOW!!!!
How do u find time to play this game and still save the world as captain obvious, apparently you were worried about ithil thats why u raised the forts...
Stick with throwin troops into the meat grinder son, because your junkyard talk just isnt up to par

[Crazy Ivan]

Ricard,

Glad to see someone actually wants to fight in Mirkwood. Dragon Lord is wandering arround like an alchoholic during octoberfest. Didn't realize that the Orcish Grog is that good may have to wander down to Dol goldur and try some..


Mike Woodie
Free Amon Lanc!

[nanook]

Originally posted by urzahil119
On the FIRST turn - we are told Harad accidently bumped into the SG navies b/c he didn't know SG's intentions.

Dave still hasn't written any of the neutrals, despite several requests and a diplo.

If SG wants people to know his intentions, he should try writing.



On the SECOND turn-- what's the story here? After the first turn he CERTAINLY new SG's intentions to come up the river. In addition, it was not only that ONE harad navy that "accidently" bumped into SG-- but TWO.


As I said above, both Harad navies try to combine at 2730 while both SG navies (it's a conspiracy! Not one SG navy, but TWO!) try to go to Osgiliath. Nice try, both.




I've heard that the Harad player is experienced, and any EXPERIENCED palyer who WANTED to avoid SG's navy (either turn one -or certainly turn two) would have made the appropriate arrangements.

And Dave is a newbie? SG could also have done the same with his fleet from 2628.

Actually, experience or not, there's no way for a Harad who wants to combine his navies at 2734 to be certain of avoiding an uncommunicative SG moving to Osgiliath ( Harad can't move from 2730 before beat 4 or he risks hitting the navy at 2628 (which may hold for 2 beats). But he can't move after beat 4 and be sure of avoiding the SG capital navy).

The ONLY way to avoid that conflict is for the SG to clarify his plans.



Experience has shown me that true neutrals wish to avoid misunderstandings as much as the alliances do.

Did you miss all my notes asking for communication from Dave? Each and every one.



Whatever you are selling,

Consistent, clear requests for communication from a neighboring nation?



I'm not buying any of it.

Apparently not.


The Corsairs, equal parts baffled and annoyed
and ready to drool on you

[Player]

Originally posted by Nightsbane
How do u find time to play this game and still save the world as captain obvious

That's actually quite funny! Sorry Bob, maybe it's real late, but I like that one a lot!

Arfanbrad the Eternal

[Er Murazor]

Well for allusions

Indee 12 Frees 10 DS 3 Neutrals

Harad has not entered SG populations otherwise SG would not be trying to go north the river, one thing is to block another one is to attack. Guess that is clear.

Rhudaur is clearly free at turn 02 and Duns have already declared they were going free.

To the Woodmen.
Taking into account I have to face more thn 15.000 Starting armies I have no choice than to fight in Mirkwood.

Facts are like this.
Harad and SG have blocked together.
Rhudaur has entered directly WK territory with over 6.000 troops.

Hope that is clear enought, and please remit to the facts.

If Rhudaur has gone free because of Harad movement at turn 1 ... it's just incredible.

Witch King
Ricard.-

[Crazy Ivan]

Getting Cranky, Ricard? Dont blame Brad, I happen to have these pictures from the last time we went to a strip joint...lets just say Mrs. Arfanbrad wouldn't appreciate them...

Tell you what, fork over the pectoral and I promise not to hurt Dancu. Heck, I'll even let his army live another turn! SOunds like a great deal to me....

Dan, you must like Scott or (more likely) are irked at Griffy for not talking. Please forgive our less-than-communicative teammate, we wish him a happy hard drive and merry new modem. Please, dont mention the drool thing again (shiver!)

WHat say you, Scott? Be you evil or just misguided?

Cowering in fear,

Mike the Inbred, Hairy, and, until recently, Dry

[Crazy Ivan]

> Actually, experience or not, there's no way for a Harad who
> wants to combine his navies at 2734 to be certain of avoiding
> an uncommunicative SG moving to Osgiliath


BTW, this isn't quite true if you take two turns to do it. Move NW SW and you will be out of the way before any other navy in the game could encounter you. Once you are in the town instead of the MT, staying out of the way is a matter of moving W, etc...

[nanook]

Originally posted by Crazy Ivan
this isn't quite true if you take two turns to do it


That's correct -- the Harad can do it safely in two turns. SG can also move his navies safely to Osgiliath in two turns.

Or they can send a note.

[Crazy Ivan]

SmartA$$! :)

[Nick]

The frees must tighten our security . Seems our diplomatic pouches are being watched. A spy must be present as everyone seems assured no correspodence has happened between frees and neutrals.Or is there a lot of assumptions being made out there.
Bain
P.S. Us dwarves have seen pictures of ships. Looks like they would make a great bobsled for young short ones.

[urzahil119]

Regarding The neutrals.


Guys,
Its all a matter of judgement.

The Rhuduar have not flipped their icon -- yet the DS is certain they are going FP. I do not doubt this judgement- I would say the same in their position. Why?-- Becuase in one's mind the actions fo the Rhuduar nation are such that a FP alleigance is highly probable.


All I am saying about the Harad amounts to the same. In my judgment, the Harad's actions communicate to me that he is going DS. Could I be wrong-- of course. However, my experience (such as it is) leads me to that conclusion. I am neither clairvoyant nor omniscient- but my judgment is what it is.

One other note- the Harad as a true nuetral is allowed to do such things- there is nothing in the game that makes a DS declaration or movements that thwart the FP- illegal, immoral or fattening. My ire is not directed at his actions -- but at this underwhelming attempt of the Corsairs to insist on the innocence of such maneuvers. Even if I am 100% correct, and the Harad has chosen the DS -- the Harad player has done nothing that will land him in jail, or in hell.

Good gaming to all,
Bob / NG

[SMoyes]

I am saddened by all this talk of my intentionally blocking the SG navy, I did NO such thing. As your former Eothraim player, Brendan, would tell you "There are bad sailors, and the Harad is way below there". True, as you say, I am experienced, but I do know that as SG it is prudent to drop the Harad and Corsairs a line to say that their moving into the river. I've seen it done where the SG player doesn't move his navy on turn 1, so what was susposed to do? Wait and hope he sends me a note? If he had computer problems as Brendan said, why didn't one of the other free ask me not to be there?

And as for turn 2, I moved my northern navy exactly as your former Eothraim player asked me to!!! The reason that both navies were there is that I thought that my moving that north navy exactly as the free asked me to, that the SG navy would be gone and I could combine at 2730.

So, bottom line is, don't blame me because your communication sucks!

A pissed off Harad

[Player]

This is rich. Always asking for "dedicated" players and this is what we get! Aha!

1) DS do an excellent job recruiting Rhudaur...Rhudaur attacks DS.
2) Corsairs say FP don't speak with Southern Neutrals...FP DO.
3) ...but it's not SG (eh?) it's the Eothraim instead...who either machinated this entire international incident and then DROPPED as a DS ringer or.... the entire problem is a result of SG being offline and not getting his "advised" movement orders from those FP who WERE in contact with the Harad...or ignored them...or made a mistake, and as a result of being off-line is unable to explain his actions.. (Dave is my Cloud in 66, so I can confirm his MIA status in regards to technology...).

Best of all, this has taken place over 2 turns instead of just one! Well, I suppose carrier pigeons weren't any more reliable than the old recipe cards, so this is all excellent in-game theatre!

So...what does the pissed off Harad intend on doing?
How does Angamaite interpret these shenanigans?
Is the Easterlings watching and judging from afar?

So we've got the usual early game flare ups, bitterness, neutral drama, etc, that always works its way through to the mid-game where all that really matters is the Humans vs Mordor situation anyway (barring really cataclysmic one-sided neutral moves). The good news is this is a 1 week game, so we'll all get there twice as fast!

For some, that's still too slow!

Arfanbrad the Eternal

[starkhorn]

Scott,

I never asked you to move north, I asked you to move south-west. The last communication that I had from you stated:-

"I will sail sw to get out of the way. "

I have forwarded you the full mail. So I have no idea what your talking about when you say that you moved exactly as I had asked. If you had have moved SW as I asked (and as you had agreed) then I don't see how the SG navy could be blocked on turn2 again.

Note I haven't seen the SG pdf so I've no idea where/who blocked who. But I know where the SG was going and it wasn't SW.

Very shocked that you are attacking me publicly and that your attack seems to be a pack of lies.

I just honestly hope your post is a result of mis-understanding or typo error somewhere.

Brad,

No I'm not a DS ringer so please stop spreading rumours that I'm a cheat. If you believe that I cheated then please contact MEPBM games to ask them to investigate.

Cheers
Brendan McGoldrick
Ex Eothraim 139

[Crazy Ivan]

Sure you weren't a soap opera writer in a previous life, Brad?

I love the smell of bitterness in the morning....smells like...victory!

Ok, maybe not victory, bet we've all definitely seen bitterness, angst, and all manner of other negative emotions (including gloating, boasting, etc..) at some point inthis game.

As Brad said,

the Usual.

Mike WOodie

[Nightsbane]

Eothraim player dropped eh? Financial problems? Teammate grumbles...Im all ears, why the sudden drop?...its a shame really I was looking foward to seeing your cries when that 3700 Calv army gets it commander assassinated..pity..

[Player]

Hey Bendan! Chill Dude! I'm not actively "spreading rumours"....I'm not calling the papers or putting in radio spots..

Re-read my post. Out and about in the world, crazy things happen, can't be denied. I quite confident your drop is bona-fide as per your original reason, but it doesn't make soap-operatic forum reading! ;) Accept my apologies if you feel personally affronted!

Brad the Arfanbrad...er, Arfanhil the Rhudaur..oh, whatever

[benmin18]

Rhudaur sucks...

Free People suck....

Dark Servants suck...

Elves suck...

Boy, am I glad I'm not in this game. :)

- Ben
Formerly Quiet Observer

[starkhorn]

Brad,

Okay fair enough......a slight over-reaction on my part. :-)
A classic case of mis-reading posts and then clicking submit before reading what I had typed.

Yeah I'm out of this game. Real life came up on me unexpectedly making a 1wk game unfeasible for me. No arguments with team-mates or juicy gossip I'm afraid. :-)

Scott,

I just re-read my post and I regret the 'pack of lies' comment. It was very harsh as I honestly believe it was just a mis-understanding somewhere along the lines but I had to reply to your post as we had actually agreed something else.

The whole freep side all thought you were getting out of the way, so I guess that explains why the freeps reacted so aggressively as they assumed double-cross. As I said storm in a teacup/mis-understanding methinks but then it's easy for me to say that being on the outside of the game. :-) Hope you can sort out your differences.

Anyway I hope you and others enjoy this game and my apologises for dropping but real life becomes important once in a while. :-)

Cheers
Brendan

[Player]

Ben....I was coming for you last game...you were on the list..why not pick up a nation here? ;)

[nanook]

This is great! It's like we're at war or something.


What exciting posts! The Dwaves make an appearance, the ghost of the Eothraim adds his piece, and Crazy Ivan risks the wrath of the adorable snowbeast...

As for the fleets:
this underwhelming attempt of the Corsairs to insist on the innocence of such maneuvers.


I have no idea what the Harad thought. Scott and I exchanged polite notes on T0 and T1 but no secret nefarious plans.

But I do know that if that if SG ordered his fleet straight to Osgiliath while the Harad ordered his fleet straight to 2734, they'd block on T1 at 2629. Hey!

If SG then sent his capital fleet to Osgiliath while the Harad sent his to 2730 -- both reasonable targets -- they'd block on T2 at 2729. Guess what?


Corsairs say FP don't speak with Southern Neutrals...FP DO

SG hasn't sent any notes -- meaning he abdicates the right to carp when his neighbor doesn't accomodate his plans.



(Dave is my Cloud in 66, so I can confirm his MIA status in regards to technology...)

That's ok. Well, almost ok. I can imagine that's a terrific pain to have computer trouble, but SG isn't the Noldo, and a minor amount of diplomacy at the front lines -- even a diplo -- is necessary for good play.

In any case, no big harm done. Write, don't write.

But if you don't write, don't complain after.



How does Angamaite interpret these shenanigans?

No ire here. SG and Harad? Classic doorway-shuffle. NG? Maybe he knows something I don't. Ex-Eothraim? Sorry to see him go. Rhudaur and the WK? Sometimes Rhudaur goes Free, even when the WK player is good.

But Crazy Ivan? Now that's different...

[Crazy Ivan]

I've got the nagging suspicion that I've just been insulted by a giant snow monkey but am just too dense to figure out how...

Ben, you are here by banned from reading messages on this group until you are on a team. We do have a newly vacant Eothraim position and a woodie character who just cant wait to join the joe team (would Hairball be an appropriate Joe name?). Might want to try it just to see if that assassination threat was real...

[benmin18]

Originally posted by Player
Ben....I was coming for you last game...you were on the list..why not pick up a nation here? ;)

Heh, tempting as it sounds, I'll pass. I've got enough on my plate as it is right now.

Besides, I don't like playing in games where neutrals immediately jump someone. ;)

- Ben
Not Getting Involved in G139 as G138 was interesting enough