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DrakaraGM@...

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

Probably because, with a mage, you don't necessarily need 6 artifacts, plus your best challenger to start with is more of a mage than a commander. Start with Elrond, add three Elvish Rings (i.e. you have to snarf the other two from Galadriel and Gandalf) and grab a weapon whose "hidden" ability is a bonus against dragons...though the latter may be for encounters only rather than challenges, so heck, just grab a +2250weapon.

And it isn't necessarily a waste of mage artifacts either -- put Elrond in a company, and each turn, he can case a lore spell such as LAT with a damn good chance of success. SO hey, while playing "slide-the-blade-between-the-scales-and-dodge-the-acidic-blood" with the great wyrms, he can also be playing "let's find the One Ring and be done with this farce" casting LAT each turn. Meanwhile the CA company commander guards him and moves the company...

:-) -- E3

-----Original Message-----
From: bbme@...
To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:47 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] pc vs dragon

--- Adrian Sheridan <morgoth@...> wrote:

> Probably just as difficult as
> bolting artiis to a mage, and going on a named
> dragon PCing spree.

Why do so many people keep talking about Mages PC'ing
Dragons??? Any old 50+ commander will do. One
character can hold 6 artifacts. Do the FP want to
waste 5 Mage artifacts or 5 Command artifacts? Think
long and hard................

Brad

Adrian Sheridan

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

That's my concept too. Only worth if for the noldo, and elrond is otherwise useless;) He can cast LCT so's he can find the buggers too and with the artiis etc (not as many, i agree) it is doable b4 t8-9 easy.
I'd definately go the dragon slaying artii, had very mixed luck without it ;)

Adrian

--- DrakaraGM@... wrote:

From: DrakaraGM@...
To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] pc vs dragon
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:45:26 -0500

Probably because, with a mage, you don't necessarily need 6 artifacts, plus your best challenger to start with is more of a mage than a commander. Start with Elrond, add three Elvish Rings (i.e. you have to snarf the other two from Galadriel and Gandalf) and grab a weapon whose "hidden" ability is a bonus against dragons...though the latter may be for encounters only rather than challenges, so heck, just grab a +2250weapon.

And it isn't necessarily a waste of mage artifacts either -- put Elrond in a company, and each turn, he can case a lore spell such as LAT with a damn good chance of success. SO hey, while playing "slide-the-blade-between-the-scales-and-dodge-the-acidic-blood" with the great wyrms, he can also be playing "let's find the One Ring and be done with this farce" casting LAT each turn. Meanwhile the CA company commander guards him and moves the company...

:-) -- E3

-----Original Message-----
From: bbme@...
To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:47 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] pc vs dragon

--- Adrian Sheridan <morgoth@...> wrote:

> Probably just as difficult as
> bolting artiis to a mage, and going on a named
> dragon PCing spree.

Why do so many people keep talking about Mages PC'ing
Dragons??? Any old 50+ commander will do. One
character can hold 6 artifacts. Do the FP want to
waste 5 Mage artifacts or 5 Command artifacts? Think
long and hard................

Brad

Brad Brunet

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

Give a commander the top 5 command artifacts and a
"hidden" ability sword (it's worth it) and dragons
die, snuff, like gnats. The FP mage deficit is huge
and all artifacts are required to create credible
cursers/LAT'ers/Revealers. Plus, you can gather the
com and other necessary toys quickly, else you intend
on waiting until you find and *successfully* steal
those nice mage artifacts.

How hard is it to get a commander up to 200? Throw in
2 "bonus vs dragon" type artifacts and you can
consider him over 300 vs Dragons. Dime a dozen
commander. I guess it's an opinion thing, but I'll
take a +20 mage toy over any 3 +20 com toys for the FP
any day.

Brad

--- DrakaraGM@... wrote:

> Probably because, with a mage, you don't necessarily
> need 6 artifacts, plus your best challenger to start
> with is more of a mage than a commander. Start with
> Elrond, add three Elvish Rings (i.e. you have to
> snarf the other two from Galadriel and Gandalf) and
> grab a weapon whose "hidden" ability is a bonus
> against dragons...though the latter may be for
> encounters only rather than challenges, so heck,
> just grab a +2250weapon.
>
> And it isn't necessarily a waste of mage artifacts
> either -- put Elrond in a company, and each turn, he
> can case a lore spell such as LAT with a damn good
> chance of success. SO hey, while playing
>
"slide-the-blade-between-the-scales-and-dodge-the-acidic-blood"
> with the great wyrms, he can also be playing "let's
> find the One Ring and be done with this farce"
> casting LAT each turn. Meanwhile the CA company
> commander guards him and moves the company...
>
> :-) -- E3
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bbme@...
> To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
> Sent: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:47 PM
> Subject: [mepbmlist] pc vs dragon
>
>
>
> --- Adrian Sheridan <morgoth@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Probably just as difficult as
> > bolting artiis to a mage, and going on a named
> > dragon PCing spree.
>
> Why do so many people keep talking about Mages
> PC'ing
> Dragons??? Any old 50+ commander will do. One
> character can hold 6 artifacts. Do the FP want to
> waste 5 Mage artifacts or 5 Command artifacts? Think
> long and hard................
>
> Brad
>
>
>

DrakaraGM@...

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

I'm not saying it won't work -- just the only Dragon-slaying I have actually
seen in a game was done pretty much solo -- no help from the rest of his
team -- by a Noldo player. Didn't require any significant cooperation from his
allies at all, really. Though I think he got the inspiration when Gandalf or
Galadriel (I forget which) showed up real early where he had a newly named
A30 who had gotten nice stealth, so he figured "what the heck, I'll steal the
elven ring" and bingo, suddenly he had a second +50 mage artifact in hand.
Passed that on to Elrond and things, hmmm, I bet with a little more mojo
Elrond could start killing those pesky Dragons... So he went after the 3rd Ring
and soon went on a killing spree.

The commander with lots of command items should work also -- especially if
the Arthedain and Dwarves are cooperating, which they should be of course but
you know not all games see a grudge-like teamwork evolve. :-) You
definitely want the big Arthedain command artifact as well as the Dwarven Ring of
Power amongst your collection of command artifacts.

The major danger, though, of sending out a schmuck commander to do the work,
is if you run across a mediocre DS agent -- especially if you are prowling
DS mountain camps looking for dragons to slay before they DS can recruit them,
where you are likely to show up and the DS agent of course won't -- is that
a mediocre DS agent could well snuff out a low-ranking commander (artifacts
not helping with the "don't K/A me" chance) whereas it should take someone a
lot more competent to snuff someone like Elrond. And if prowling FP camps in
the mountains instead, there is a small chance at least that an enemy agent
will show up, and Elrond can either challenge or double the guy, while a
commander would just have to challenge him. And if the agent is refusing and
stealing while waiting for a dragon to appear, then a challenge won't work.

Anyway, the schmuck commander takes more risk of being nailed and having all
those command artifacts fall into enemy hands. Or even if the commander
himself is not nailed, the danger exists of the artifacts being stolen, if say
the enemy has located the Dwarven Ring and sees a chance to snatch it.

The danger still exists with Elrond of course -- but not only do I advocate
Elrond be in a company so he can be carted around while doing two orders, but
the company commander should be a CA who can guard Elrond each turn. So the
chance of either nailing Elrond or stealing one of the big mage artifacts is
reduced both due to Elrond being a harder target as well as being guarded.
I expect that if the commander is used instead, nobody wastes another
commander acting as a company commander, since the commander himself has no other
useful second order and may as well move himself. On the other hand, Elrond is
one of those guys the DS do like to track, so if he ever stays in one place,
they might catch up to him with a big gun agent. So the danger is less
overall, but if the enemy CAN catch up to Elrond, the payoff is bigger.

Yes, the mage artifacts are certainly also useful in putting together a
Curses squad -- fortunately none of them are actually needed to LEARN the spells,
though the +50s help, they don't provide access. Tinculin, on the other
hand, should not be given to a dragon slayer but instead be passed around like
other Spirit Mastery artifacts getting mages to learn the spells -- it is ~+40
and therefore certainly could help slay dragons but the Curses learning is
also very important.

All of which is purely theoretical for me anyway -- I pretty much only play
4th Age these days, where sadly just about all the dragons seemed to have
passed away and no artifacts give access to learning lost list spells either. On
the other hand, for those who think the DS have too many useful encounters
in 1650 and 2950, 4th Age goes the other way -- lots of FP encounters are
still there, Eagles, Ents, Hobbits, Woses to name some of the good ones, but I
have yet to see any critters join DS armies except one -- A Balrog is still
hanging around the White Mountains... :-)

But going back to the original point -- I think the more the FP are working
like a grudge team, the more viable the commander dragon-slayer is compared to
the mage. And one advantage of using the command artifacts for
dragon-slaying that you didn't mention but which I feel compelled to point out, in many,
if not most, games, the command artifacts end up on commanders of armies who
get captured in battle or targetted by assassins etc., and therefore
gradually -- or even rapidly -- end up in DS hands anyway. Putting them on a
dragon-slayer will tend to keep them much safer, strange as that sounds -- and
keeping those artifacts out of enemy hands is a good thing, so to speak. The
mage artifacts already are less likely to get snatched by the enemy -- as long
as those using them remember to move around a bit. Getting some mages in a
company and moving them around WHILE they are learning Spirit Mastery is a good
idea, otherwise you may well find that just as you thought you were almost
ready to go out and Curse some DS agents, the DS agents find you, kill you, and
take your stuff...

Heh. Speaking of command artifacts being vulnerable due to being on army
commanders, in one game as the Long Rider I got lucky, took a guess and found
Bain early and whacked him, getting his stuff, including the two command
artifacts. Later in that same game, I managed to threaten Khazad-dum away from
the Dwarves -- using those two command artifacts as well as others... :-)

Enough babble -- both techniques should work, the main thing is, having a
plan of some sort is much better than having no plan at all, and those damn
dragons DO manage to turn the tide in far too many battles... :-)

-- E3

In a message dated 2/14/2007 8:33:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bbme@... writes:

Give a commander the top 5 command artifacts and a
"hidden" ability sword (it's worth it) and dragons
die, snuff, like gnats. The FP mage deficit is huge
and all artifacts are required to create credible
cursers/LAT'cursers/LAT'<WBR>ers/Revealers. Plus, y
com and other necessary toys quickly, else you intend
on waiting until you find and *successfully* steal
those nice mage artifacts.

How hard is it to get a commander up to 200? Throw in
2 "bonus vs dragon" type artifacts and you can
consider him over 300 vs Dragons. Dime a dozen
commander. I guess it's an opinion thing, but I'll
take a +20 mage toy over any 3 +20 com toys for the FP
any day.

Brad

--- _DrakaraGM@..._ (mailto:DrakaraGM@...) wrote:

> Probably because, with a mage, you don't necessarily
> need 6 artifacts, plus your best challenger to start
> with is more of a mage than a commander. Start with
> Elrond, add three Elvish Rings (i.e. you have to
> snarf the other two from Galadriel and Gandalf) and
> grab a weapon whose "hidden" ability is a bonus
> against dragons...though the latter may be for
> encounters only rather than challenges, so heck,
> just grab a +2250weapon.
>
> And it isn't necessarily a waste of mage artifacts
> either -- put Elrond in a company, and each turn, he
> can case a lore spell such as LAT with a damn good
> chance of success. SO hey, while playing
>
"slide-the-blade-"slide-the-b"slide-the-"slide-the"slide-the-bl
> with the great wyrms, he can also be playing "let's
> find the One Ring and be done with this farce"
> casting LAT each turn. Meanwhile the CA company
> commander guards him and moves the company...
>
> :-) -- E3

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rener

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

> How hard is it to get a commander up to 200? Throw in
> 2 "bonus vs dragon" type artifacts and you can
> consider him over 300 vs Dragons. Dime a dozen
> commander. I guess it's an opinion thing, but I'll
> take a +20 mage toy over any 3 +20 com toys for the FP
> any day.
>

I did that. Twice.

The first time, I tried a commander 250 vs dragon, in a duel, and lost.

The second time I tried a commander 225, with two artifacts with bonus
against dragon, on a combat, and lost.

I´m willing to try again, who knows. Maybe I´ve tried against too
powerful dragons. Maybe we should only try this with aivnec, smaug etc...

Rener

Brad Brunet

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

--- Rener <renerdl@...> wrote:

>
> > How hard is it to get a commander up to 200? Throw
> in
> > 2 "bonus vs dragon" type artifacts and you can
> > consider him over 300 vs Dragons. Dime a dozen
> > commander. I guess it's an opinion thing, but I'll
> > take a +20 mage toy over any 3 +20 com toys for
> the FP
> > any day.
> >
>
>
> I did that. Twice.
>
> The first time, I tried a commander 250 vs dragon,
> in a duel, and lost.
>
> The second time I tried a commander 225, with two
> artifacts with bonus
> against dragon, on a combat, and lost.
>
> I´m willing to try again, who knows. Maybe I´ve
> tried against too
> powerful dragons. Maybe we should only try this with
> aivnec, smaug etc...
>
> Rener

Aivnec yes, Smaug no. Dragons are unique and have
unique strengths, or at least they vary (ie, unique 50
com's all have 50 com/50challenge...). Young dragons
that galavant around on the ground slashing and eating
enemy troops are weaker than the older flying spell
casting dragons... Estimated challenge ranks for
dragons range from 190 through beyond 300. Give
yourself 5 com's (including the bonus one) and a bonus
sword and you would consider yourself the almost equal
of the best dragons, superior to the rest. I've
killed a number of them. Flipside, when one dies, one
dies quite quickly. But I've never had a real dragon
killer die without killing at least 2 beforehand. The
biggest difficulty is finding the dang things...
After the early game, I haven't seen dragon *sit* long
enough to move to the pop they're appearing on. One
starts to get tempted to put the dragon killer in
combat zones looking to challenge/kill the DS nuke
protectors on site - dangerous due to agents at that
point.

Brad

DrakaraGM@...

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

Heh. When my friend used Elrond to go dragon slaying he killed several in a row and never came close to dying. But I don't recall what his exact challenge rank was -- I know he had the three +50 elven Rings, plus the command artifact that is anti-dragon, a weapon that is anti-dragon, and I think one other minor mage artifact. The command item of course didn't bump his challenge rank up much, he had it for the anti-dragon feature. Pretty sure his overall challenge rank was in the high 200s, not all the way to 300 though. At least to start with... I don't think he had Tinculin, I believe that was being passed around to various mages for learning Curses. But a base Elrond M70 could add +190 with three rings and a harp and get to effective M260 before adding in other skill ranks, weapon, and whatever the anti-dragon artifact effect is.

But any challenge CAN go wrong -- I have seen characters at +40 or so over their opponent (verified with the other player) get their butts handed to them due to a critical success on the opponent's part. That extra +(1-100) points can really make a difference... So even a pumped Elrond using more mage artifacts than he should CAN miscalculate, dodge left when he should dodge right, and get wasted. Dragon hunting is serious business... :-)

Losing a random commander hurts less -- what hurts more at that point may just be the need to go collect all the artifacts again...most should just belying there but it still takes several orders and commanders may well failto find them. If the dragon slayer has a "guide" though, i.e. is a memberof a company with someone else as the company commander, then there is a good chance the company commander will grab some, most, or even all of the artifacts. (No guarantee though, unlike a character in an army.)

Brad -- when doing this, does your guy actually challenge the dragon with the 210 order or does he attack the dragon as part of a reaction to the encounter, or both? I have heard -- don't know if this is true or not -- that the "aids in encounters with dragons" (and similar hidden powers) actually only applies during an encounter, does not affect a personal challenge. Ofcourse, the advantage of a challenge is that you know you are using your full challenge rank at least, and will gain some command or mage rank (whichever version of dragon-slayer you are using). Plus in a challenge you killthe dragon before some DS weenie can recruit it with the encounter reaction. But slaying a dragon within an encounter, if doable, could be worth gold or lost list spells or something. For me, it is all academic anyway -- have not actually done it, and don't meet any dragons in the 4th Age (there is supposed to be one around the Iron Hills area but I have never seen it) anymore...but I am curious.

-- Ernie III

-----Original Message-----
From: bbme@...
To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] pc vs dragon

--- Rener <renerdl@...> wrote:

>
> > How hard is it to get a commander up to 200? Throw
> in
> > 2 "bonus vs dragon" type artifacts and you can
> > consider him over 300 vs Dragons. Dime a dozen
> > commander. I guess it's an opinion thing, but I'll
> > take a +20 mage toy over any 3 +20 com toys for
> the FP
> > any day.
> >
>
>
> I did that. Twice.
>
> The first time, I tried a commander 250 vs dragon,
> in a duel, and lost.
>
> The second time I tried a commander 225, with two
> artifacts with bonus
> against dragon, on a combat, and lost.
>
> IÂ´m willing to try again, who knows. Maybe IÂ´ve
> tried against too
> powerful dragons. Maybe we should only try this with
> aivnec, smaug etc...
>
> Rener

Aivnec yes, Smaug no. Dragons are unique and have
unique strengths, or at least they vary (ie, unique 50
com's all have 50 com/50challenge...). Young dragons
that galavant around on the ground slashing and eating
enemy troops are weaker than the older flying spell
casting dragons... Estimated challenge ranks for
dragons range from 190 through beyond 300. Give
yourself 5 com's (including the bonus one) and a bonus
sword and you would consider yourself the almost equal
of the best dragons, superior to the rest. I've
killed a number of them. Flipside, when one dies, one
dies quite quickly. But I've never had a real dragon
killer die without killing at least 2 beforehand. The
biggest difficulty is finding the dang things...
After the early game, I haven't seen dragon *sit* long
enough to move to the pop they're appearing on. One
starts to get tempted to put the dragon killer in
combat zones looking to challenge/kill the DS nuke
protectors on site - dangerous due to agents at that
point.

Brad

Brad Brunet

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

--- DrakaraGM@... wrote:

> Brad -- when doing this, does your guy actually
> challenge the dragon with the 210 order or does he
> attack the dragon as part of a reaction to the
> encounter, or both? I have heard -- don't know if
> this is true or not -- that the "aids in encounters
> with dragons" (and similar hidden powers) actually
> only applies during an encounter, does not affect a
> personal challenge. Of course, the advantage of a
> challenge is that you know you are using your full
> challenge rank at least, and will gain some command
> or mage rank (whichever version of dragon-slayer you
> are using). Plus in a challenge you kill the dragon
> before some DS weenie can recruit it with the
> encounter reaction. But slaying a dragon within an
> encounter, if doable, could be worth gold or lost
> list spells or something. For me, it is all
> academic anyway -- have not actually done it, and
> don't meet any dragons in the 4th Age (there is
> supposed to be one around the Iron Hills area but I
> have never seen it) anymore...but I am curious.
>
> -- Ernie III

210's as a rule. Haven't played around with the
challenges much, yes, I've heard of various bonuses
too. Next time... ;-)

Brad

Fri Feb*16,*2007 6:05*pm
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guarding npcs

I suspect the answer is nothing, but does anything happen if you guard Sauron with a DS agent? Would it trigger an encounter? Thanks, Jeff....

PaoloTendes

Feb*13,*2007 8:37*am



Re: guarding npcs

I´ve dueled Sauron, nice image on the PDF... And I´ve stollen and Killed Gandalf and Galladriel a couple of times, never tried to guard any of them. I´ve...

Racz
andre_racz

Feb*13,*2007 10:24*am



Re: guarding npcs

.... Your agent would gain 1-5 points of agent rank from doing the guarding. Sauron is only an army encounter and only affects the characters that have joined...

John Seals
John_Seals

Feb*13,*2007 10:25*am



Re: guarding npcs

yes, dragons can be assassinated, but it is very very etc difficult. Probably just as difficult as bolting artiis to a mage, and going on a named dragon PCing...

Adrian Sheridan
elf.baiter

Feb*13,*2007 5:52*pm



pc vs dragon

.... Why do so many people keep talking about Mages PC'ing Dragons??? Any old 50+ commander will do. One character can hold 6 artifacts. Do the FP want to ...

Brad Brunet
bbme52

Feb*13,*2007 10:58*pm



Re: pc vs dragon

Probably because, with a mage, you don't necessarily need 6 artifacts, plus your best challenger to start with is more of a mage than a commander. Start with...

DrakaraGM@...
drakaragm

Feb*13,*2007 11:53*pm



Re: pc vs dragon

Give a commander the top 5 command artifacts and a "hidden" ability sword (it's worth it) and dragons die, snuff, like gnats. The FP mage deficit is huge and...

Brad Brunet
bbme52

Feb*14,*2007 7:33*am



Re: pc vs dragon

.... I did that. Twice. The first time, I tried a commander 250 vs dragon, in a duel, and lost. The second time I tried a commander 225, with two artifacts with...

Rener
renerdl

Feb*16,*2007 6:12*am



Re: pc vs dragon

.... Aivnec yes, Smaug no. Dragons are unique and have unique strengths, or at least they vary (ie, unique 50 com's all have 50 com/50challenge...). Young...

Brad Brunet
bbme52

Feb*16,*2007 8:18*am



Re: pc vs dragon

Heh. When my friend used Elrond to go dragon slaying he killed several in a row and never came close to dying. But I don't recall what his exact challenge...

DrakaraGM@...
drakaragm

Feb*16,*2007 6:00*pm



Re: pc vs dragon

.... 210's as a rule. Haven't played around with the challenges much, yes, I've heard of various bonuses too. Next time... ;-) Brad...

Brad Brunet
bbme52

Feb*16,*2007 6:05*pm



Re: pc vs dragon

Thanks! ... From: bbme@... To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] pc vs dragon ... 210's as a rule....

DrakaraGM@...
drakaragm

Feb*16,*2007 6:12*pm



Re: pc vs dragon

That's my concept too. Only worth if for the noldo, and elrond is otherwise useless;) He can cast LCT so's he can find the buggers too and with the artiis etc...

Adrian Sheridan
elf.baiter

Feb*14,*2007 1:59*am



Re: pc vs dragon

I'm not saying it won't work -- just the only Dragon-slaying I have actually seen in a game was done pretty much solo -- no help from the rest of his team --...

DrakaraGM@...
drakaragm

Feb*14,*2007 6:17*pm



Re: guarding npcs

Here is the duel picture... Translating the text to english (loosely): In 2019 (Mountains) a ritual duel began. A great circle was drawn in front of the the...

Racz
andre_racz

Feb*14,*2007 5:11*am



Re: guarding npcs

Didn't get the actual Sauron Duel pic, is there one??? Could and would you please send it to me at pmoreno407@... , yahoo doesn't do attachments???? thanx ...

cabal132002

Feb*16,*2007 8:31*am



Re: guarding npcs

Feel free to send it to us with the duel and we can put it in Bree for you Clint ... ************************************************** ************** ME Games...

ME Games Ltd
harlequingam...

Feb*16,*2007 9:39*am



Re: guarding npcs

please yes racz, got the text but no image :( Adrian ... From: ME Games Ltd <me@...> To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com Subject: Re: [mepbmlist]...

Adrian Sheridan
elf.baiter

Feb*16,*2007 6:03*pm

DrakaraGM@...

2nd February 2008, 01:27 PM

Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: bbme@...
To: mepbmlist (AT) yahoogroups (DOT) com
Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] pc vs dragon

--- DrakaraGM@... wrote:

> Brad -- when doing this, does your guy actually
> challenge the dragon with the 210 order or does he
> attack the dragon as part of a reaction to the
> encounter, or both? I have heard -- don't know if
> this is true or not -- that the "aids in encounters
> with dragons" (and similar hidden powers) actually
> only applies during an encounter, does not affect a
> personal challenge. Of course, the advantage of a
> challenge is that you know you are using your full
> challenge rank at least, and will gain some command
> or mage rank (whichever version of dragon-slayer you
> are using). Plus in a challenge you kill the dragon
> before some DS weenie can recruit it with the
> encounter reaction. But slaying a dragon within an
> encounter, if doable, could be worth gold or lost
> list spells or something. For me, it is all
> academic anyway -- have not actually done it, and
> don't meet any dragons in the 4th Age (there is
> supposed to be one around the Iron Hills area but I
> have never seen it) anymore...but I am curious.
>
> -- Ernie III

210's as a rule. Haven't played around with the
challenges much, yes, I've heard of various bonuses
too. Next time... ;-)

Brad