Geographical Super Gun Boat Variant

[Banal]

I'd like to propose a four nation gunboat variant (apologies in advance if this has been proposed or done before).

If four nations are too many for someone, they can always form their own mini team and divide their nations - just as in the regular gunboat variant teams may be shared.

I'd propose dividing the nations along semi-geographical lines because it contributes to the suspension of disbelief necessary to understand why some nations may communicate better than others.

Here's a first draft attempt at geographical distribution:

Dark Servants:

North and West - Witch King, Rhudaur, Dragon Lord, Long Rider

Central - Fire King, Ice King, Dark Lt's, Dog Lord

South and East - Corsairs, Cloud Lord, Blind Sorcerer, Quiet Avenger

Perhaps Dog Lord and Long Rider should be swapped?


Free People:

North and West - Noldo Elves, Arthedain, Cardolan, Dunlendings

Central - Woodmen, Sinda Elves, Dwarves, Eothraim

South and East - Northern Gondor, Southern Gondor, Haradwaith, Northmen

Potential rules changes I'd recommend with this:

1. A diplomacy round on turn 1. Some of these teams will need to know if economic aid is forthcoming and be able to offer artifact swaps and other aid on turn 1. Although the offers would be unable to be confirmed before turn 6, it would add some acceleration to the variant.

2. Move the Ring of Impersonation to the Sinda Elves (this is to balance some of the artifact synergies created by the DS nation distributions).

3. No Missed Turns - if someone does not submit a turn, the game is suspended. After 24 hours the position is advertised for replacement. If it is not picked up within 7 days, the position is killed and the game is put up to a vote - continue or concede. The side with fewer concession votes wins - if no concession votes, the game continues.

I think I've provided enough information for everyone to disagree with something ;-)

I'd be happy to sign up for any of these teams if such a variant gets off the ground.

[Blue Knight]

Only problem I forsee with the breakdown of the nations and this is mainly with the free is the wealth factor.

You have the woodman, sinda, dwarves and Eothraim -- at least two if not three of those nations are gonna need gold and need it badly. While the other two groupings are gonna have a crap load of gold between them.

More interesting, at least for the freep side might be to take one nation from each of those area's and link them.

[Diehard]

Why 4 nations? That's a major commitment. A less ambitious, but still GB-on-steroids, approach would be to have 4 teams of 3 on each side. If you want the regional element, triplets works out pretty well:

DS
11, 19, 24
12, 13, 20
15, 16, 18
14, 17, 21

FP
4, 5, 10
1, 8, 9
2, 3, 6
7, 22, 23

[Banal]

Blue Knight - I completely agree - the FP central are the at risk risk team and without smart play by the other two teams in supporting them, the alliance will fail. Similarly, I think that if the DS South and East team does not proactively support the North and West team the DS will fail and the Central team is probably just about as vulnerable as the FP central team.

Die Hard - I really like your three nation break down. I chose four nations somewhat arbitrarily - I would probably split a four nation team with a friend and I would probably play a three nation team alone. I'd be happy to play any of the triplets you listed!

[gypo]

i would be up for a three nation game think 4 is to much if things go wrong, unless like you said 2 people in each team of 4

[mbjohncock]

As a player in game 95 I could be interested in this variant.

My main concern is that CL and QA may need to be seperated. The combination of double scout and +20 kill is generally consodered too powerful for gunboat games.

I would suggest the LR and CL be swapped. The LR has Oblmarl and also has cavalry starting in North Harad so he is regional.

It gives the NW alliance the CL nation they need for support. It also gives the NW a voice within Mordor and a place to retreat to.

I'd also support suspending the game rather than running SS turns. If an extra one turn start up fee was payed by each nation/position that may be a way to cover the cost of the work that may be needed by the game moderators.

Mike

[SMoyes]

Why 4 nations? That's a major commitment. A less ambitious, but still GB-on-steroids, approach would be to have 4 teams of 3 on each side. If you want the regional element, triplets works out pretty well:

DS
11, 19, 24
12, 13, 20
15, 16, 18
14, 17, 21

FP
4, 5, 10
1, 8, 9
2, 3, 6
7, 22, 23

I would play this.

[Trajan]

I'd be interested in playing this.

Mike Bel

[tshuiatt]

Tony and I will play this variant.

tim

[Banal]

I listed the three-nation pairings again below with the recommended substitution of LR and CL.

DS
11, 14, 24
12, 13, 20
15, 16, 18
19, 17, 21

FP
4, 5, 10
1, 8, 9
2, 3, 6
7, 22, 23

No-Drop Gunboat Format with these additional rules:

1. A diplomacy round on turn 1 and then follow the normal turn 6, 11, etc.

2. Move the Ring of Impersonation to the Sinda Elves (this is to balance some of the artifact synergies created by the DS nation distributions).

3. No Missed Turns - if someone does not submit a turn, the game is suspended. After 24 hours the position is advertised for replacement. If it is not picked up within 7 days, the position is killed and the game is put up to a vote - continue or concede. The side with fewer concession votes wins - if no concession votes, the game continues.

Based on the responses so far, I think we can fill this game pretty easy.

Clint or Rob any comment?

[mbjohncock]

I have emailed my preference to be in this game variant.

The moving of the Ring of Impersination in as interesting suggestion. In moving it you strengthen the Sinda/WdMn arty hunting power, but you weaken the Dunlending ability to influence the south where the QA and LR agents could be at play.

I prefer it stay with SG as it makes that alliance more appealling. It won't effect my choice to be in the game, but it does reduce my desire to be 7/22/23.

Mike

[Banal]

That is a good point - what does everyone else think about that RoI rule?

[gypo]

clint or rob

would there be a reduced rate for playing 3 nations?

is it worth setting up a game number now? as i have a gameing place vacant at the moment

[pseudiferus]

That is a good point - what does everyone else think about that RoI rule?

Doug,

I think that keeping RoI with the Duns/SG combo makes them a good fit to play with the LR and his agent arties and that team...so I'd vote no changes there.

later

tony huiatt

[pseudiferus]

I listed the three-nation pairings again below with the recommended substitution of LR and CL.

DS
11, 14, 24
12, 13, 20
15, 16, 18
19, 17, 21

FP
4, 5, 10
1, 8, 9
2, 3, 6
7, 22, 23

No-Drop Gunboat Format with these additional rules:

1. A diplomacy round on turn 1 and then follow the normal turn 6, 11, etc.

2. Move the Ring of Impersonation to the Sinda Elves (this is to balance some of the artifact synergies created by the DS nation distributions).

3. No Missed Turns - if someone does not submit a turn, the game is suspended. After 24 hours the position is advertised for replacement. If it is not picked up within 7 days, the position is killed and the game is put up to a vote - continue or concede. The side with fewer concession votes wins - if no concession votes, the game continues.

Based on the responses so far, I think we can fill this game pretty easy.

Clint or Rob any comment?

Clint...Tim and I would love to play in this variant (i.e. just one position of three nations between the two of us...). I would absolutely LOVE to play any of the combinations listed above. All four of the DS triples look very intriguing. I'm thinking that the CL start of upgrading to another MT and downgrading a town to a village would still be warranted...

later

tony huiatt

[Banal]

Let's scrap the RoI swap - with a turn 1 diplomacy if a trade is desired it can be swiftly executed.

DS
11, 14, 24
12, 13, 20
15, 16, 18
19, 17, 21

FP
4, 5, 10
1, 8, 9
2, 3, 6
7, 22, 23

No-Drop Gunboat Format with these additional rules:

1. A diplomacy round on turn 1 and then follow the normal turn 6, 11, etc.

2. No Missed Turns - if someone does not submit a turn, the game is suspended. After 24 hours the position is advertised for replacement. If it is not picked up within 7 days, the position is killed and the game is put up to a vote - continue or concede. The side with fewer concession votes wins - if no concession votes, the game continues.

I am ready to sign up for this if the GM's are on board.

[pseudiferus]

Let's scrap the RoI swap - with a turn 1 diplomacy if a trade is desired it can be swiftly executed.

DS
11, 14, 24
12, 13, 20
15, 16, 18
19, 17, 21

FP
4, 5, 10
1, 8, 9
2, 3, 6
7, 22, 23

No-Drop Gunboat Format with these additional rules:

1. A diplomacy round on turn 1 and then follow the normal turn 6, 11, etc.

2. No Missed Turns - if someone does not submit a turn, the game is suspended. After 24 hours the position is advertised for replacement. If it is not picked up within 7 days, the position is killed and the game is put up to a vote - continue or concede. The side with fewer concession votes wins - if no concession votes, the game continues.

I am ready to sign up for this if the GM's are on board.

As to the missed turns.....make the deadline 48 hours earlier than the 2-week deadline, with the goal being that the turn runs on time. With the position being advertised or run by a stand in, maybe a GM to let the turns process on time. There is NOTHING more disappointing to not have the game run on the allotted time. I'd hate for one persons lack of timing mistakes delay the game for the rest of us...this is gunboat, it's not like you have to wait for communications to decide on something....if nothing else, maybe players would put in prelim orders...and then make changes at the last minute like some do...

later

tony

[Mormegil]

Marty and me would also sign up (sharing three nations) if this kind of game will be started.

[Rocklizard]

I would play the Tri-nation variant, I do not think the RoI should be swapped.

Cheers,

Mike

[Rocklizard]

In fact I have e-mailed in my choices already!

M

[Banal]

I have sent e-mail requesting to sign up. I also asked the GM's to look at the different proposals aimed at preventing missed turns from screwing up the game. I'm glad to see so much interest for the variant - looks like we have more than enough interest to fill it.

[Trajan]

In fact I have e-mailed in my choices already!

M

I have too.

Mike Bel

[tshuiatt]

I count seven that are interested in this variation.

Sounds to me like we are only missing one assuming all seven have emailed their nation preferences.

Names that I know are

Marty, Huiatts, Doug, Mike J, Mike B, S Moyes and one other unkonwn name.

Has everyone emailed Clint their nation choices?

tim

[pseudiferus]

I have sent e-mail requesting to sign up. I also asked the GM's to look at the different proposals aimed at preventing missed turns from screwing up the game. I'm glad to see so much interest for the variant - looks like we have more than enough interest to fill it.

Doug...

I would propose this alternative to missed turns. As some players have mentioned...life happens and a turn could be missed. Bad for the player involved. To fix a potential "dropped" alliance or nation scenario, the player would have to submit the next turns orders one week early, else position is advertised and given away to someone else that wants to play. So if you have a special service turn, for whatever reasons...you would have to submit new orders a week early, else risk losing your "positions" to another player...

does that make sense?

In a committed/no drop format...the alternative would be to also ask the GM to replace you ahead of any drops...preferably only because life issues, not because of poor play/bad results...

later

tony h.

[mbjohncock]

I count seven that are interested in this variation.

Sounds to me like we are only missing one assuming all seven have emailed their nation preferences.

Names that I know are

Marty, Huiatts, Doug, Mike J, Mike B, S Moyes and one other unkonwn name.

Has everyone emailed Clint their nation choices?

tim

As this is a 3 player alliance you Huiatts should get some newb in your alliance. I like the sound of that :D

I'm still organising my allies and then each ally will choose nation preferences. That is still a while away. I might even end up playing multiple positions.

As for suspending the game we need to find something ammicable to both the moderators and a committed group of players. Lets face it this should not happen except in unusual circumstances as we are all committing to play the game out.

My suggestion is that we have orders submitted with 1 week. If orders are not in by then ME can contact the player in question and either
-get orders from that player and a clarification they will continue
-evict and disbar the player from committed games with condolences if it is due to RLP. Arrange a new player that is on stand by.
-bring game to a close

You can still modify our turn in that second week. You could email and let the moderator know your turn is coming. If you don't respond you loose that position and the trust of the other players inolved in the game.

[Clint]

It's upto you guys.

1) It's a no-drop game so I'm hoping for committed players. If you drop then you'll be barred from future no-drop formats. (Some RL issues might preclude that but that's upto GM discretion)
2) I suggest players send in their orders in the first week. (Amend them later to your heart's desire)
3) We contact players at the end of that week if they've not got orders in.

I think it's going to be almost impossible to find replacement players within a week (or two days) btw. When we did this sort of game before it's very hard to get the replacements as it's a big commitment. Given that we attempt to find players and don't find them what do we do? SS the turns or hold off on processing for a week then, as I expect, SS the turns at that point and then the next turn put up a vote to concede? Just trying to forestall any potential problems I see with this format.

Clint

[Clint]

Tempted to play myself... :) I'll give it some thought... any problems with that? (I don't know who's playing what btw! Rob deals with that)

Clint (player)

[Banal]

No-Drop
1-Week Nag-Gram

I'm totally fine with Player Clint in the game.

Game on?

[SMoyes]

I have sent in my choices and I'm fine with Clint playing.

[pseudiferus]

No-Drop
1-Week Nag-Gram

I'm totally fine with Player Clint in the game.

Game on?

Ditto Ditto...I'd love to play against Clint in the game...as I always end up on the opposite alliance for whatever reason!

As to adding a thirdsome to the Huiatt combo....heck, I can barely tolerate Tim myself at times (and I'm sure he's the same with me)...so I'd hate to punish any other person by inviting them in...on the other hand, I'm open to the possibility...

later

tony h.

[mbjohncock]

I'm fine with Clint the player in the game.

Tim & Tony, you will need a third player or one of you is burdened with the extra responsability of a second nation.

Anyway I'm off to secure one more ME diva to fill the last spot in my alliance within an alliance.

I'm agreeable with the parameters set by Clint regarding how the game is run.

Getting my turn in on the first week will be harder than getting up for work in the morning. I'll do it, but it will take some adjustments to my normal approach.

Mike

[tshuiatt]

Sweet,

The Huiatts got Noldo, Cloud Lord and the Easterlings. The rest of you are in trouble.

tim

[tshuiatt]

Just submitted the Easterlings orders for the turn that runs next week.

Will submit the Khand Easterlings and the Rhun Easterlings tomorrow.

I hope everyone is going to submit turns early.

tim

P.S. I bet Gixxer wishes I would submit my team game turns as early as I can submit gunboat turns.

[Banal]

My orders are in - hope this works out well - have fun!

[mbjohncock]

Don't forget your 30 word message my alllies.

We get a special turn 1 option to talk tactics

Conversely all you opponents feel free to ignore this post

[Clint]

My turns are in!!! And I'll be using the 30 word diplo.

Good luck one and all.

Clint (player)