gb 14

[blind one 118]

your situation is hopeless...surrender now while you can and we may show mercy.....nobody on my side surrender though...just the other side.......

[vandal]

has me scared I give up

Vandal

[blind one 118]

always happy to see my rather meaningless words drive fear into the very hearts of enemies...or maybe allies...or maybe even people not in the game...I really didn't expect people to quit on turn zero...obviously I'm scarier then I thought lol

[Nimdraug]

I guess I too might as well surrender now. Darn, I thought I was going to enjoy GB 14. ;)

[vandal]

I was so scared, as you can see, dropped the minute I had an inkling you where in the game

Vandal

[blind one 118]

vandel is starting to remind me of my ex...always wanting the last word no matter how rediculous the topic...heather? is that you?

[vandal]

yes

[blind one 118]

lmao

[Sc0rp10]

Is this the fate of anyone who wants to post on G14... Vandal will have the last word... and he's not even playing the Easterlings in the game!! :)

[Sc0rp10]

Well, to drive more fear into everyone's hearts... my initial T#0 was a blinder!!!

I must be winning... still got all my pop centres, armies are intact and characters are looking good.

[vandal]

Are you playing the Easterlings and still in dream land? Or am I?

Vandal

[whip]

Hello everyone in game 14, just came to wish good fortune on my allies and a pox upon mine enemies. (If you are an enemy and receive good fortune by accident, please return it to me. And if you are an ally and receive a pox, i'm really sorry. It's hard to be accurate with these things when you don't know who is who.)

Since we won't know what's happening outside of our own turns, i thought it would be fun if everyone made sort of a journal about the game. I don't mean anything elaborate, just a few notes each turn with the highlights. Then we can exchange them at the end of the game. It would be easier than going through all the pdf's, and may provide some insight on some of our more important moves throughout the game.

[DaveHolt]

LOL.
Confession: I'm scared too...
This is my first GB. So I'm scared of everyone. I'm scared my
allies will not do the expected things, and I'm scared that my
enemies will. Paranoia reigns. aieeeee

[Nimdraug]

Whip, I think a small turn-by-turn journal is a good idea. I'll give it a try (and try to keep it up).

Dave Holt, yes, GB breeds paranoia. I prefer to think of it as "intensity." But it's alot different than coordinating your moves with 9 or 10 or 11 allies. And alot more fun, in my opinion. Still and all, I've found myself biting more than one fingernail as I send off my GB orders, wondering if I misread the intentions of my allies and enemies.

[blind one 118]

I'm less afraid of the enemies that do the expected things then I am of those that do the unexpected...unless of course they march in the wrong direction every turn...that doesn't scare me too much lol..and I'll try to keep a journal..but knowing me that means I'll make one up at the end of the game <shrug>

[Sc0rp10]

Phew!!!!

First turn done and things are looking good.

It's good to see that those icons I can see on my map don't seem to have been given bog standard orders!!!

Now to work out what the hell is going on :)

Am I winning or are things looking bad?

AAAhhh... can I keep this up for another 49 turns!!!

Sc0rp10

[Sc0rp10]

I'll also try to keep a journal... see how long I can do that :)

[Gixxer]

Make your journals.

They won't be long ! Ha, Ha !

Have Fun !

Gixxxer

[Nimdraug]

Hey, Sc0rp10, I hope you don't use any "dead character" names when naming new characters. It's a violation of the "spirit of Gunboat," you know. ;)

Game 14, like every other GB game I've begun, looks like it's off to a wild start!

Good gaming to all!

[Sc0rp10]

Dead characters...

well that depends on whether I thought they were a worthy oponent or not

Maybe I'll name all my characters after famous *people*

Commanders start TAR##
Agents start JI ##
Emmies start ELR##
Mages start URZ##

:p

Sc0rp10

[Sc0rp10]

Originally posted by Nimdraug
It's a violation of the "spirit of Gunboat," you know. ;)



Grrrrrr......:D

[Gixxer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nimdraug
[B]Hey, Sc0rp10, I hope you don't use any "dead character" names when naming new characters. It's a violation of the "spirit of Gunboat," you know. ;)

We don't need to hurt the " spirit of Gunboat ".

We call them A,B,C and so on.

In the case the alphabet won't be enough, we have some numbers.

You can count them if you want !

Hey I'm one from three, who are you ?

Have Fun !

Gixxxer

[pseudo]

howdy all

first game in five years...and I can't talk to my allies! Wow...this will be different.

looks to be fun

good luck all

Tony Huiatt

[blind one 118]

so what do those little light bulbs and eyeballs on the map mean again? can't we all just get along? I'd just like to say good luck to everyone also as long as they're on my side...the rottenest of luck to the rest of ya lol

[Nimdraug]

Pseudo, if this is your first MEPBM game in 5 years, then you are in for a treat! Gunboat is a wild, intense and supremely enjoyable way to play MEPBM.

Good luck!

[Sc0rp10]

Just had another look at my maps and I swear I've seen my enemy icons moving closer!!!

AAAhhh

Pseudo, since you are just starting out again, I'll make sure I target your nations first, just so you can feel right at home.

Sc0rp10

[pseudo]

Originally posted by Nimdraug
[B]Pseudo, if this is your first MEPBM game in 5 years, then you are in for a treat! Gunboat is a wild, intense and supremely enjoyable way to play MEPBM.



So I have seen already by turn 1. My opponents have moved such that some of their actions are NOT seen by my allies!!! In other games I would just say the word, play defence, and let my allies kick some butt.

In THIS game however...I can NOT expect such support/help...gulp! And my opponents may be able to pull of a "quick" strike and regroup before my allies recognize what's going on and take advantage....

And it brings out a whole new realm of strategies I haven't considered before....moving such to stay off xx map, but don't worry about yy seeing it etc. Without direct info sharing it does more closely represent the "confusion of war"...

this IS more fun than I anticipated....I hope it stays this way for many more turns :)

[pseudo]

Originally posted by Sc0rp10

Pseudo, since you are just starting out again, I'll make sure I target your nations first, just so you can feel right at home.

Sc0rp10 [/B]

Thanks Scorp...it's so good to have all that attention. I'm sure that I'll get my licks in as well. It's only taken me one turn to figure this thing out so far <g>....more time than that is a waste...

luck yourself

pseudo

[DaveHolt]

I'm glad you all have it figured out...
I haven't figured out didly yet.
Maybe by the end of the game I'll get it figured out.
This should make half of you happy, and slightly less than half of you nervous...

but irregardless of whether I know what I'm doing or not (NOT) at least there's MEOW now to help me make sure that I'm doing it syntactically correct. If I am destined to fail, it is at least with some small satisfaction that I can now know that I'm failing in a precise manner.

hmmm. maybe there is hope.

[blind one 118]

I haven't a clue as to what I'm doing..luckily for me that keeps my enemies off balance because they haven't a clue as to what I'm doing either..hasn't the other side given up yet?

[blind one 118]

I think I like this gunboat method..I can do totally irrational moves and not have to explain any of them to irritated allies..it's like middle earth heaven

[Nimdraug]

Blind One 118, to be sure, one of the advantages of Gunboat is that you can play your style of game without having to listen to the complaining (or insults) of nominal allies.

Of course, you must also forego the comradery of worthy allies -- but that's where this forum and the Yahoo group comes in handy.

I'm no ME PBM wiz; nor a great strategist; nor especially lethal in my employ of my characters. But I nonetheless prefer to play this game on my own terms without having to answer to anyone else. If I do something stupid, I can cry or laugh about it to myself. If I choose to do something unorthodox, that's completely up to me.

I'm enjoying the Gunboat version of ME PBM like I've never enjoyed this game before!

[Celebion]

Originally posted by pseudo
howdy all

first game in five years...and I can't talk to my allies! Wow...this will be different.

looks to be fun

good luck all

Tony Huiatt


Is Tim playing?


Voice from the past

[DaveHolt]

ok. i'm becoming a gunboat convert. This actually is fun!
you know, given the lack of team interaction, a 1-week gunboat game is really more feasible than a 1-week normal game. Do you guys ever see 1-week gunboats?

[Nimdraug]

DaveHolt, I agree that a 1-week Gunboat game is alot more feasible than a 1-week standard team game. Nonetheless, I am unaware of any 1-week GB games.

For some reason most players shy away from 1-week games. In my opinion, there are some disadvantages to 1-week games. The biggest disadvantage, as I see it, is the long Winter season. That can destroy economically weak nations. On the other hand, the big advantage is the quick turn-around.

I'm glad to hear that GB is winning you over. I could hardly believe my first few turns of Gunboat. I never experienced so much thrill and excitement from ME PBM before. I was hooked and now play only Gunboat games.

[Clint]

Do you guys ever see 1-week gunboats?

Nope - I don't want to start a set-up for 1wk and 2wk game as that will effectivly stop games filling. We can just about fill 1 normal game of 1650 1wk.

Clint (GM)

[whip]

I have to say, i'm also enjoying my first GB game very much. As others have mentioned, it's great to have the independence to run your turns however you like.

[blind one 118]

I'm not too sure how practical a one week gunboat game would be anyway...I don't know how everyone else handles these things but usually if I go on vacation I have a team mate cover my turn for me....might be considered a hair on the shady side to do that in a gunboat game lol

[pseudo]

Celebion....

Tim is helping me run my two positions in this game...at least he's the one that has suggested all the messed up actions <g>....

It's fun to talk with someone else about the game! Even though he has no additional information.

That's the one thing I don't like about gunboat...which is I can't talk to my allies and razz the opposition for their mistakes....

Of course...I don't have to sweat someone yelling at me for making my stupid errors also....

which voice from the past???

later

tony huiatt

[blind one 118]

good lord...wth are you people doing? wait...wth am I doing? I must admit this way of playing certainly does keep one on the edge of the chair when getting results back...so is the other side ready to give up yet?

[Nimdraug]

Blind One, you're experiecing the 'Gunboat Rush!' Gunboat is far more intense than any other ME PBM experience I've had.

Hey, don't forget to keep up your game 14 journal. We're all going to compare notes at the end.

[blind one 118]

the one thing I have yet to figure out is how to aggravate the opposing players without violating the rules...this is of course driving me crazy...it may be my last gunboat game lol

[blind one 118]

ok...made an update to my journal..I must admit I'm really not to good about doing things like this lol

[Sc0rp10]

crap... forgot about the journal.

how's everyone doing???

I don't think I've ever seen so many army icons on one map before!!! maybe I just didn't notice, but it's a little scarry wondering if they're going to do the worst thing you can think of or something less damaging...... gulp...

Sc0rp10

[DaveHolt]

Hey Sc0rp10 - don't worry! those are my army icons. i breed them like rabbits. harmless really. just like rabbits... vorpal rabbits. bunnies bunnies everywhere! wheeeeeeee

be not afraid...

as to journal - ok ok ok. will do one. what is it again that we're trying to capture in the journal? the fear of the unknown? the utter uncertainty that comes with complete lack of knowledge of wtf is going on around the game? oh. we already grok that... i guess we're trying to capture strategy discussions with oneself like: ok. i know this one small item and don't know this other whole list of things, but the other players (friends and foes) are probably doing such & such, so i'll do what I think is best...
only to find out the following turn that the other players (friends and foes) WEREN'T DOING what I thought they were...

ah well... so it goes.

Major FUN tho!
Dave

[blind one 118]

well I don't know about everyone else but my journal only consists of a couple of excuses a turn for the risks I take in case they don't work out lol...as an added note though I will be replacing all my I thinks with I knew if they do work out lol

[Nimdraug]

I haven't forgotten about the journal -- but I'm not "religiously" maintaining it either.

Still, it's a good idea and I look forward to comparing notes when this one is all over. I'm quite curious to learn how battles are developing in other regions and also what my neighboring friends and opponents were thinking as the game unfolded.

It's been a long time since I last played ME PBM. I got back into it this past Fall when I read about the Gunboat variant last Summer on this forum. I now play only Gunboat games. I'm fast becoming of the opinion that GB is the best way to learn this game. I know that sounds counter-intuitive; but I think I've learned more from these GB games than from all my previous team games.

In any case, I'm greatly enjoying game 14 and hope all of my allies and enemies are as well.

[blind one 118]

finally..another turn and everything is going according to plan...now if I can just figure out who's plan it is going according to.....

[whip]

My journal is actually getting kind of long. It's almost like i'm using it to bounce ideas off of myself. :) Mostly it's just things like: My armies/characters did "this". I see enemy armies/characters doing "that". I will try to do "whatever" next turn.

[blind one 118]

alas my journal consists of..turn 1: OH NO!! turn 2: OH NO!! turn 3: OH DAMN!! lol

[Nimdraug]

Blind One, your game journal bears a remarkable similarity to mine.

But Gunboat is still a blast even when losingt.

[blind one 118]

losing? oh no not that...I am not retreating, I have mearly decided to advance to the rear

[pseudo]

BO118,

My journal started off the simularly...
T1...holy crud...I'm toast!
T2...well it could have been worse
T3...hmmm, maybe they're just feinting and will come next turn
T4...ok I have no idea what they're doing, but they blew their opportunity...cuz I ain't gonna let 'em have another...

at least that's what I'm thinking right now :)

later

tony h.

[blind one 118]

ok...thanks a lot tony...now I have to spend the next two years wondering if I missed an opportunity lol

[pseudo]

Yep...that is the detraction to playing MEPBM...games can take two years, at least the fun ones can....

Don't worry...I'm capable of turning a winning position into a loser, you might get another chance to get a shot in...it just won't be the killer it could have been.

Course, if you're on my side...you could be the one they're going after instead of me....

Hmmm...you're right, either way it's not good for you....

[blind one 118]

let me think...which order can I accidently give that will screw up my whole turn...oh yeah...there it is...click click <god I hate computers>

[Nimdraug]

Cheer up, Blind One, at least you can put the blame on "fat fingering" your keyboard. I, on the other hand, am just plain no good.

[blind one 118]

yeah yeah yeah...you're probably the one causing me all my problems lol <well at least the problems I don't decide to cause myself anyway> think next turn I'll retire all my characters and see if that hurts....hmmm...bet it would lol <I won't do that so don't worry allies or get hope enemies...well...at least I won't do it on purpose...>

[DaveHolt]

i just love this GB format. woohoo!
now if only things went according to plan...

[pseudo]

gunboat is more fun than I thought it would be...that's for sure! I've always wanted to run two positions before anyways, but it was against the rules under GSI...now it's legal. And it helps that I don't have to check emails every night...so spending just a half hour at night prior to going to sleep is all I need to process this stuff...cool. I can send my turns in a week in advance, and not sweat worrying whether they get in time or not because I don't have to wait for any new information to turn up from my "allies" at the last minute...
Now if my dang allies would just read my mind we could do some serious butt kicking here...unfortunately, I think my enemies are better mind readers...either that or I'm too paranoid....

[blind one 118]

even paranoids have enemies <glancing about nervously>..I must be on the same side as you pseudo...not only don't I have a clue as to what you're doing I seem to be having trouble figuring out what I'm doing too...I knew I shoulda never dropped out of that mind reading course in college

[blind one 118]

another exciting turn....may my enemies pay and pay and pay for what they are doing to me....oh yeah they are...but the price should be doubled for all of them and I should play for free

[Nimdraug]

Pseudo, your comments about Gunboat are right on the mark. I originally joined Gunboat to avoid dealing with the seemingly endless number of email messages that arrived in my in-box each day. For those with other time-consuming commitments (family, athletic activity, career, etc.), a major part of the attraction of Gunboat is saving time. I quickly became enamored of Gunboat's many other charms; and now I would refuse to play anything but Gunboat even if I were independently wealthy and not working.

Operating two nations is a blast, plain and simple.

The fog-of-war is a welcome relief from the tedium of information over-load I felt during the old regular games.

Experimenting and trying unusual approaches to old strategies without having to listen to the complaining of "allies" is enjoyable.

The list goes on. I joined Gunboat to avoid the hassle of having to respond to 15 - 30 emails each day. I stayed with Gunboat because, as you discovered, it turned out to be much more fun than I thought it would be!

[blind one 118]

ok...I can't stand it anymore...rules or no rules I just have to laugh at someone....hahahahahaha <pointing at the person I'm laughing at>

[blind one 118]

grrrrrrr...I hate you and you and you and you and you and especially you <think that covers everyone lol>

[DaveHolt]

i think you were pointing your finger at me Blindone, and now you're hating me....

this calls for reprisals!

nahhh nahh nah-nahhh nahhhhh

[blind one 118]

well then come and get me..I dare ya...I double dog dare ya...and as anyone who has seen a christmas story knows you can never turn down a double dog dare lol

[DaveHolt]

Oh... Now you've gone and done it!

Double Dog Dare?

why youuuu.....

um... i hope you're on the other team...

:-)

[blind one 118]

lol dave...just go get whoever you think I am <hopefully we're on the same team and you wipe someone out>

[blind one 118]

ok..after some serious consideration I think it's time to go to plan B...now I need to figure out a plan B

[pseudo]

You're still on only plan B?

I was up to plan triple zzz after turn 2....put some more effort into it will ya! You might be on my team....

on the other hand you might not....go back to sleep...they're not really all that bad, you don't mind sharing your pop centers with others....

[blind one 118]

lmao...I said I was going to plan B..I didn't say this was my first venture through the alphabet..besides..I'm old and I think slow..I didn't even have a plan until last turn and then gave it up immediately after I got the results back <this is of course disregarding my initial plan that everyone on the opposing side surrender on turn 0>

[blind one 118]

ok...I'm going to give the opposing team one last chance to surrender...then I'm going to send in my troops filled with refried beans <and they said chemical weapons were a modern development>

[Blue Knight]

LOL -- Sounds like the same discussion i just had with the dwarves in one of my games -- we came to the conclusion that his guys are just crapping there pants though :)

[DaveHolt]

OK. I surrender.
But, um, how do i do that?
Who do you surrender to in GB?

Guess I'll have to keep flogging them and sending them into battle. What? You want FOOD? heh heh. you don't need food if you're going to die anyway...

Silence is golden

[blind one 118]

don't surrender dave...you're on my side..I know that because you haven't wiped me out yet lol...and um mike...I thought I was the only one with the lack of class required to use flatulations as a weapon lol

[DaveHolt]

Turn Report to follow:

------ BLEEEP -------

So that about wraps it up guys. Hope your turns went better!
Dave

[blind one 118]

my turn was almost exactly like yours except I had a couple of extra @@%$#$!@$& to add to my bleep

[blind one 118]

journal..oh yeah the journal...I must have about 5 turns worth of comments to catch up on but only those 18 and above will be allowed to read them

[Sc0rp10]

Apart from my one missed turn which set me back a bit.... b#gger... I think I'm winning... is it the nation with 400 points at the end that wins? he he..

Come on guys, you know you'relosing, just give up the ghost and surrender... you know who you are.

How far do I have to march to find an enemy army? are they all hiding??? and where's all the character action... I turn up... and no-one's home!!!

Sheesh, these prices are really great aren't they!!!... can't co-ordinate that in a normal diplo game... we'll have to exchange notes on how we've all managed to do that once you all surrender to me so we can replicate it (or not) in a diplo game.

[blind one 118]

If the fat lady isn't singing..she is at the least warming up her voice

[DaveHolt]

hmmm. i see no fat lady. but I don't have a mirror.... hmmm

[blind one 118]

<handing dave a mirror and a glass of water so he can start singing lol>

[DaveHolt]

la la la la
warble sputter spit
la la la la

there Blind One. Now, don't you wish you'd kept that mirror and glass to yourself! ?

[blind one 118]

lmao...yes indeed I do <wiping sputter and spatter off face>...I still say we're on the same side so actually you'd be singing to the other side :)

[DaveHolt]

OK, you guys are all way too quiet. I think it must be because of my singing... that made you afraid. very afraid... :-) (or maybe you're waiting for the test results to come back after wiping sputter and spatter off your face???) I know, you want a reprise! ok, here you go:

la la la la
worble sputter spit
la la la la

oh, i'm not a fat lady either... :-)

[blind one 118]

sometimes it takes the fat lady a little while to waddle out to where she's supposed to be to sing...it doesn't change the fact that she should be singing it only means she stopped for a coconut cream pie on the way

[Sc0rp10]

Finally, what a result!!!

My nations have managed to get rid of all my enemies in and around my homeland and can now go on the offensive...

Tremble with fear, you who are on the wrong side... I'm coming for you... and I can't be stopped....

Sc0rp10

[DaveHolt]

Oh where oh where has the Fat Lady gone?
Oh where or where can she be?
She warbled an out-of-tune note or two
and then she faded away...

Yes, then she faded away...

[Sc0rp10]

Finally, what a result!!!

My nations have managed to get rid of all my enemies in and around my homeland and can now go on the offensive...

Tremble with fear, you who are on the wrong side... I'm coming for you... and I can't be stopped....

Sc0rp10

Ooops... more enemy turn up!!! what IS wrong with you all. Don't you know when you're beat!!!

[blind one 118]

the fat lady is singing just fine...it's not her fault half her audience happens to be tone deaf lol

[DaveHolt]

the fat lady is singing just fine...it's not her fault half her audience happens to be tone deaf lol

LOL. Ok Blind One. Here's the deal. You just keep counting the turns between when the "fat lady began to sing" and when she gets done.
I think you're going to find that she is incredibly hoarse at the end of it,
has lost 100 lbs & is no longer fat, and began singing the song for the wrong reasons...

Can you imagine how hungry she will be? For the record, I think she was supposed to start singing on 7/4/04... She's already been singing for 4 months... I bet she's got a whopping big appetite by now... In fact, the reason I think she faded away is that someone walked by with a BigMac and she couldn't keep singing with that temptation passing by. I'm pretty sure that you can find her at McDonalds right about now...

[Sc0rp10]

Anyone bored of the loneliness yet?

Anyone tired of allies not appearing to help?

Anyone wondering what their allies are DOING!!!!!

No... maybe it's just me :(

[Clint]

"Anyone bored of the loneliness yet?"

Nope...

"Anyone tired of allies not appearing to help?"

Yep.... can't really comment more but it's interesting.

"Anyone wondering what their allies are DOING!!!!!"

Not really; it's quite clear... :-)

Clint (Player)

[DaveHolt]

"Anyone wondering what their allies are DOING!!!!!"

Not really; it's quite clear... :-)

Clint (Player)

wow. it's sure not clear to me what my allies are doing... ;-) and i certainly DO wonder... but all will eventually be revealed and I will then come to understand their awesome gameplan. Englightenment is soon to be upon us all. Of course, there is some dispute as to how to translate "soon" into turns... Something about fat ladies...

[blind one 118]

It's the holiday season....ever try to get a fat lady to sing when there's a turkey on the table? not the easiest thing in the world to do you know...not like you can push them out on to the stage....so you manage to struggle along a little while longer then I thought you should have been able to...the final results will remain the same and all will be right once the calories are counted

[DaveHolt]

Well, while the fat lady eats her turkey for Christmas, I'm going to chow down on a huge slab of prime rib! with horseradish sauce!

oh... that's off subject...

as to this game ending... lots going on... you might very well be amazed blind one... I'm amazed. definitely. I'm pretty sure I won't even recognize the fat lady. I think she's been singing for over five months now. She must have lost a whole lotta weight. She better chow down on lots more than turkey to regain her fat status. It'll be real interesting when this game is *finally* over to find out how long she had to sing, and whether she had to change tunes somewhere along the line... :-)

[thuiatt]

the fat lady might still be singing, but soon she will stop

[DaveHolt]

the fat lady might still be singing, but soon she will stop

one can only hope...

[blind one 118]

I must admit I'm wondering what my allies are doing....hope they didn't take the fat lady into the back room....that could take a while...wonder what all that flour is for?

[blind one 118]

la la la la la <the fat lady singing>

[Clint]

Game over.... cool (last set of orders to put in according to Rob). I was playing the Northmen, Dwarves (and Harad). Biggest success for me was keeping the Harad alive and beating on the Corsairs whilst being beaten by the QA - thanks to some help from the SG... :-) Interesting battle against the Corsair, QA and agent support from Dog Lord and CL...

Thought I had the North of Harad sewn up and them came along the IK ( I think) and FK start armies (along with the CL!) ouch.

Up in Mirkwood took Dol Guldur (not sure what the Sindar was upto - didn't seem to like recruiting!) with the dwarves and then just sent troops into Mordor with the NM. Northmen had the fun of QA/Dog and LR agent activity and later on the Rhudaur (how come he wasn't dead!?). Nice to see an Arthedain army in Mordor though...

Lots of fun overall but I found the Dw/NM combo a bit limited and add the Harad and you've not got a lot of options but other than that it was cool.

Clint (player)

[DaveHolt]

I guess since Clint is now talking about GB 14, we're aok to also talk about it. I started as CL & FK. BS dropped at some point and I picked up BS.

Game comments:
My CL strategy was to cripple NG by kidnapping as many of his commanders as I could. I got quite a few. This allowed me to send in emissaries to InfOthr away his pops as he abandoned his southern pops. I couldn't rebuild the bridge as IK had Osgiliath and there was no way for me to talk to him... So I couldn't send FK troops across the river.

FK captured Ithil pass and kept it most of the game. FK also had to support the gate as well on several occasions as did CL. My hat's off to Cardolan for his sneak move with Huge army at the end. a huge Cardolan army that shouldn't be on 3224 at all given the blocking armies in place was a very unpleasant surprise! CL had 2927. BS or CL had 2622, but i suspect it fell to Arth. FK had pumped 2926 to a City and I was attempting to build a very large MA army there with conjure hordes, but SG or Duns (not sure which) came in with some good agents and causes me some problems before I could move out to Threat 2924. SG's armies were also proving to be a problem by the end of the game. Of particular sadness was turn before last when my best CL agent (who should have killed the SG huge army commander at 2828. my other intercepting CL agent got the other commander) was whacked by a stupid encounter, losing the ROW in the process.

I got BS too late to do much in the way of procuring curse arties. Fortunately CL got Tinculin in a really major character war with Noldo at Morannon. That was the CL highlight of the game. That one turn, a lot was on the line. CL had a ton of really valuable agents & artifacts at Morannon and Noldo had most of his major characters there & his curse squad. I just knew they were going to curse the ROW holder. I gambled and had her IssPers one of the curse mages & she won! that was enough to allow her to not die from the curses (17 health left) and to assass one. That plus the others that were assassinated by my other agents eliminated the Noldo curse squad in one turn. Only Elrond escaped to the best of my knowledge. Also, she got Tinculin out of the exchange and immediately fled to give it to the BS mage company (which was constantly moving around) The BS curse squad was building up at the end of the game and would have been there in a few turns.

The one ring was in the sea of Rhun, so again, since it was GB and i couldn't talk to LR, there was no way to realistically go retreive it. If it had been somewhere that I could get it, I would have stayed in the game and tried to get a DS one ring victory. But as it was, the northwest FP were invading Mordor and the top 3 DS VPs showed that the game was over (indeed Blind One, the fat lady was singing), so I told Rob that I felt the game was over and wanted to quit.

I also tried to support QA/Corsairs against Harad with armies and agents in North Harad. At one point the DS had almost taken over all of North Harad. But pesky SG came in and Harad fought back. Then it became an emissary/agent war in north harad that bounced back & forth

General GB comments:
I hope this doesn't sound like whining, but I think it's harder for the DS to win GB 1650 than the FP. In a normal 1650 game, for the DS to win, they have to survive the military game in the early turns, and then win with a character war after that. Yet, the character war depends significantly upon information exchange, coordination, and planning. I found it to be very difficult to play the CL as effectively in the GB scenario as it should be played in a normal 1650 game. There were instances where, in hindsight, I should have sent CL agents into 3120 to whack incoming EO armies, but didn't know they were incoming (for example). And the IK could surely have used CL agents to whack the incoming Card & NW FP armies before they took Durthang and 3123 at the end. But there's a limit to how much information can be gathered, even with lots of mages casting 415s and 428s...

I definitely think that in a 12v12 scenario, that Corsairs should be DS and Harad FP. The other way around is way over-balanced toward FP, so this game was balanced in that respect.

I think we need to figure out a way to more cleanly decide that the game is over. I don't really have a good answer, but am curious if others have any ideas.

Over all, it was lots of fun. I did more planning and preparation for this game than any other game I've played in a long time. I congratulate the FP! You played well and you deserve the win!

LA LA LA LA (so sings the fat lady)
:-)

Dave

[MichaelK]

Shame about this coming to an end so suddenly... I was in combat with quite a few of my enemy and things were starting to get interesting... boy they seemed to be everywhere!!!

I was playing Woo/SGo... tempted to pick up Har when it became available but thought it would be a bit unfair.

I'm still kicking myself over my missed turn... that really set me back in mirkwood and made me have to change all my plans to accomodate the disaster of loosing 2405.

I spent ages sending help into Har... just couldn't get a foothold that lasted, but it seemed to give Har the chance to keep going, which was very important... then when I finally managed to get a 2000+HC+WarMa army going to help NGo I found Cities owned by FiK and ClL!!! Sheesh!!!

I knew NGo was having a rough time because he never featured on the top 3 FP... and I knew we were kicking ass in Angmar because Car was there with big points.

Very happy when Art sent an army over to help in mirkwood... and then strange to see Art in mordor when I finally turned up!!! I'm sure that will make for an interesting report.

Acquired a nice Agent artifact early on but didn't really utilise it to huge effect... couldn't ever seem to free up commanders to form companies so wasted tons of orders moving people around... I also found I never could get enough money together to name all my characters... probably because my armies were quite big to compensate for not knowing that my allies probably had similar size armies to me.

It'd be good to know who was playing each pair.

Cheers

Michael
SGo/Woo

[thuiatt]

We played Cardolan/Sindar and picked up the Arthedain early in the game.

First game in five years and first Gunboat ever. Loads of fun for anyone that has not tried this format.

Thanks for ending game Dave, as the writing was on the wall and Tony and I are ready to play another gunboat game. We hoped the evasive movement past your troops at Minis Ithil would avoid your agents. Was our army going to die this turn? Blind Sorceror capitol was about to be visited by our agent squad and curse squad (I think in two more turns)

Great play in the early part of the game by the Woodmen/Southern Gondor player and the Dwarves/Northmen player. We guessed Clint was one of the players (I thought he was woodmen from his reputation).

Tough luck for Northern Gondor/Duns, as he got blasted by Rhudaur early. I applaud you for sticking out the game.

Tony wants to post the turn results, but we are willing to swap pdf’s if anyone wants to swap.

I agree with Dave, although most the other players seem to think otherwise. I think the freeps have a big advantage in Gunboat.

Tim Huiatt

[blind one 118]

yeah it was a little tough going there for a while as the n gondor/dun...I had the cloud lord, fire king, ice king, dog lord and rhudaur starting armies all after me at the same time and minor skirmishes with the long rider and dark lt armies plus the cloud lord was picking off a lot of my n gondor commanders..it was ok until the bs starting army showed up and at the same time I combined a couple of armies under one commander only to have him get kidnapped that same turn turn...that's when the bridges had to go...I felt bad for harad but I knew s gondor was helping out down there so hoped he'd be ok...my positions were never in any danger of falling so it wasn't a problem sticking it out..the emissaries were a problem but I did have dun agents trying to pick them off so I hoped to put an end to that but with all the pop center losses and the corresponding loyalty losses the n gondor is a prime target for emi action and that was probably my biggest worry until s gondor wandered on to one and then I figured that would be under control soon enough...I'm actually suprised the dark servants lasted as long as they did after the military losses they took so early while getting so little in return...bet the dog lord is still cussing about losing his cav to the ents :)

[thuiatt]

So the blind one played North Gondor/Duns

Again, thank you for sticking out the game. We gave the duns a little cash but not much else. Blowing the bridges was the right thing to do and then wait for the north to come help.

We pretty much left Harad out to dry after our starting Sinda navy got beat up down on Corsair land. We hoped Southern Gondor was taking care of that as we did not even try to find out what was happening down there.

If ARthedain, Noldo, Cardolan and Duns can not beat up the Witch King and Rhudaur, then the free people will lose.

One thing that stunk in the game is Sinda did not get any stealth until the 23rd character. We killed two agents trying to get some stealth and then finally gave up. We also never got to use our Curse squad. I dont know if we beat the noldo to e mere vardo, or he just let us have it, but we appreciate the curse artifact. We were going to form three curse squads, but obviously the game ended.

Who played Noldo and Eothraim. And why did the Arthedain/Harad quit the game on turn two.

[Alain]

Hi Guys,

Just joined the forum and was surprised to find this much communication on the game.
I played the Rhudaur/Dark Lieutenants combination at start and picked up the Corsairs around turn 11 when the player gave up after loosing Dragon Lord (I assume anyway) and after loosing some major battles with characters killed against the Harad (as I saw when I picked up the nation).

A very difficult game from the start for both Rhudaur (partly due to the fact that Witch King seemed to drop out very early) and Dark Lieutenants (which suffered because I decided to financially support Rhudaur and focus on character war with DLieu). I managed to pull off some very succesfull attacks with the Rhudaur on Dunland before I had to retreat to Mordor under the combined attacks of Arthedain/Cardolan and Noldo and what was left of the Dunland troops. I actually held off these nations from taking Rhudaur for much longer then I thought possible. Unfortunately the Rhudaur cavalry attack on Arthedain died early as the Arthedain had some Hobbit help just at the right time.

The whole game through I could not raise Rhudaur above 13 characters as I was fighting bankruptcy nearly every turn. Dark Lieutenants faired hardly better because of the financial support I had to give to Rhudaur and just when I completed a curse squad on turn 16 to help out the Rhudaur, Dark Lieutenants was eliminated: I discovered that due to drop-outs Arthedain had also acquired Cardolan (I my mind a very unfair combination advantage which should not have happened though Rob did just explain me how it came about) and he combined both nations to attack all known DLieu PC's in the Misty mountains (7 if I remember correctly) at the very same turn that the Eothraim also attacked the DLieu capital (though I assume the latter to be coincidence). If it had been a teamgame it could not have been more perfectly timed and there was no way to safe the DLieu. Possibly this was when the tide turned against the DS.
From then on Rhudaur could do harly more then try draw some attention here and there by raising armies and quickly threathen a PC before the army was squashed again.

When I took up the Corsairs the nation was close to bankruptcy too and also here the financial situation never really changed. I managed to recover at one stage even though I was short of characters, but just when I was looking at an improving situation, the SG navy joined in with perfect timing and also assissinated some of my best characters. Due to lack of characters I then lost MT's to emis squads and still I managed not to go bankrupt even though I had some very close calls. Perticulary enjoyed the battle against the Harad (thanks Clint) which was tight right to the very end even when he brought over some Dwarf characters.

Though none of the nations I played in this game ever really developed their full potential, I really enjoyed beating the odds for survival and think this was one of the most enjoyable games I played. I was really sorry to hear my teammates decided to drop the game, I had just taken up the BS in an effort to keep it going.

I too think the DS are at a disadvantage but my feeling is that if WK+Rhudaur became a combination while the FP (Arthedain/Cardolan/Noldo/Dunlendings) are not allowed to make a combination between them the situation in the North would be more balanced.
Now it seems to me WK and Rhudaur are fighting a loosing battle from the start.

Cheers,
Alain Deurwaerder

[thuiatt]

Well put Alain and thanks for chiming in about your play. After reviewing the game, I agree that Cardolan/Sindar picking up Arthedain is unfair. We should have picked up Harad instead and possibly this game would have been different, as Clint or Southern Gondor would have picked up Arthedain then instead of Harad.

However, with competent play even if you get a Rhudaur/Witch King pairing, you will not be able to hold on in Angmar. Remember, you are only two nations while you will be fighting a minimum of four to five nations with the full might of the arthedain and cardolan against you. Yes I have seen many times the witch king has won in gunboat, but I don't see how unless Arthedain and Cardolan don't know how to play.

Coincidence with the eothraim sacking the dark lieutenants capitol while we continued to hit your camps. We did not even know the Eothraim was on your capitol. However, we were never going to let you keep any camps in the mountains as we could not afford the easy dragon finders. We scouted the mountains continuosly and lost quite two or three characters to dragons finding out who owned the pop centers. We figured if you were going to put a pop center there, we were going to make your economy pay for doing it. You could have held out a lot longer if we had not been given the arthedain, but with the Witch King quitting early, you had no chance. Heck, the Dwarves, Duns and even Northrern Gondor had armies running around on your pop centers after we took them.

This brings up another point that I harped on a long time ago. When a nation gets picked up in gunboat. It should be anounced what the pairings are. Rhuduar and the Witch King should have been warned that cardolan and arthedain were working together.

Nice job with Urzahil doubling tharudan, but we needed your mage artifact for our curse squad.

tim

[Alain]

Tim,

I like your suggestion that when nations get picked up the new pairing should be announced. The other side knowing that a nation is picked up shouldn't change the game. But I also think that in future GB games neighbouring nations should not be allowed to pick up a dropped nation. Cause even if we had known about the Arthedain/Cardolan combination it wouldn't have changed the advantage.

I see your point about the WK/Rhudaur combination, even with the coordination advantage it would still be very hard and then there would be no point in Mordor to retreat to if it went wrong. How about changing to a WK+CL combination and FK+BS combination? This would give some agent aid to the WK and indirectly to Rhudaur, plus it would easy up the pressure on NG which is a very difficult position right now.
I will copy this message to Clint's other message titled new GB, cause I think this is part of a more general discussion others should read too. Please react to it there.

BTW, it wasn't Urzahil that doubled Tharudan, it was the other emis that you kidnapped. He just bribed Urzahil the turn before.

Cheers,
Alain

[thuiatt]

I like Alain suggestion of changing the pairings for the dark servants to Witch King/Cloud Lord and Fire King/Blind Sorceror. Now if Tormog shows up with the cloak of the abyss and a couple cloud lord agents join the Witch King, the north would be a lot more interesting.

Reiterate again that all pairings should be announced. I am not sure if you should not allow neighboring nations to be picked up. If no one had picked up the Arthedain, then I think the dark servants could have won that game.

Looking forward to a new gunboat game, with just about any pairings.

Tim Huiatt

[pseudo]

Alain,

Tim and I played the Cardo/Sinda and then Arthedain nations together...it was a lot of fun discussing the game and strategies with my brother...

I too felt it was unfair that as Cardolan, giving me the Arthedain position was not right. As a minimum I wanted the Rhudaur and WK players to know what had happened. Really I wanted all the DS to know....

I'm not sure what the WK was trying to do in this game. Arthedain didn't run turns 2 and 3, and he could have really been more proactive. He just moved way to slowly. I had identified ALL of your Rhudaur starting forces/locations by turn 4, and by my calcs, you shouldn't have been able to take the Dun capital. Then I saw there was a challenge of the Dun character who assumed your entire force was there (the cav was in Arthedain country) and the Dun capital fall...bummer. I felt bad that as Cardolan I hadn't done more to help the Duns...if we could have just communicated you wouldn't have been able to take the Dun capital. I also felt guilty about retaking all of the Dun pop centers, and not being able to give them back!!!

We were trying to make this game an economic nightmare for the Rhudaur/Drk Ltnts, and it was pure coincidence about your capital and all the camps...

send me an email to mhuiatt@cox.net and I'll forward my last PDFs to anyone interested....

later

tony huiatt

[pseudo]

Alain,

Hmmm, I think a better combination would be CL and Rhudaur versus WK/CL. I think the WK can hold out a bit longer than Rhudaur can, and the CL can fund the Rhudaur dark hole, as well as support agent wise. But then the FK and DL would be "too coordinated" in Mordor. Perhaps CL/Rhudaur, DL/WK, BS/FK as pairings...

[Clint]

Perticulary enjoyed the battle against the Harad (thanks Clint) which was tight right to the very end even when he brought over some Dwarf characters.

Yeh good hard fight. At one time I was about to move 900 HC off and then the QA assassinated it. Arghhhhh. Had the NM inf the pcs (working on 2135 and 2137 this turn) give a back-up to the Harad and another pc to the Dwarves to recruit. Saw that the Cor capital was on 22 loyalty at one point and then you brought the navy back to stop the inf... nice one.

Didn't get a lot of characters for Harad... (ended on 8) :-) The original player named an Emi which was a major pain if it had been a Commander things might have been different. With major Emi attack towards the end I ran @1% tax to keep it alive.... :-)

Clint (Player)

[Clint]

Note - there's a discussion set up for changes to the GB format. You might want to post there so that everyone can discuss it rather than just GB14ers.

Clint (GM)